Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Yeah, I knew it was soething else, but I wasn't sure what. To be honest, the guy was a tournament guy--probably one who went around and fought in all kinds of tornaments because he liked to fight and he liked to get trophys. He was very fast and very atletic. I watched him measure the ring so he could guage the distance for different techniques before the fights started. He knew what he was doing and he ultimately took first in that tournament.

I'll take your word for it. He looked competent enough. That scissors sweep was pretty sweet...I don't think I'd ever go for it, but maybe I just don't practice it enough for mine to be effective.

[Judge Pen]

I'll take your word for it. He looked competent enough. That scissors sweep was pretty sweet...I don't think I'd ever go for it, but maybe I just don't practice it enough for mine to be effective.

Yeah, I didn't see that one coming either. I switched stances to try to bait him into a high technique, but I got something different. Oh well, live and learn.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Alright.....apps time....

Anyone have White Monkey Steals the Peach?

At the beginning of section 2, when you turn and flourish to the right hip,
then step forward with the left foot and flourish.....


I was told this was a sweep. Didn't have it demonstrated, b/c at the time I was just trying to memorize the movements.

Does anyone know how this works? It's unlike anything I've seen so far.

[Golden Tiger]

Anyone have White Monkey Steals the Peach?

At the beginning of section 2, when you turn and flourish to the right hip,
then step forward with the left foot and flourish.....


I was told this was a sweep. Didn't have it demonstrated, b/c at the time I was just trying to memorize the movements.

If you are refering to the: Cross hands, turn 180, move hands to the other side and then step, then step and hit HN5(temple), side chop ST9(neck), slide hit RN17(low midline)...I have never seen those first steps used as sweeps but I am sure if you were able to trap the hands, twist , pull across and step, you could get a sweep out of it.

I do remember the form but each person pulls different things out of it. Hope that helps a bit.

[tattooedmonk]

Alright.....apps time....

Anyone have White Monkey Steals the Peach?

At the beginning of section 2, when you turn and flourish to the right hip,
then step forward with the left foot and flourish.....


I was told this was a sweep. Didn't have it demonstrated, b/c at the time I was just trying to memorize the movements.

Does anyone know how this works? It's unlike anything I've seen so far.

Yes this is how master sin explained the moves. It is like BQ said.

[kungfujunky]

im seeing this in a little over a month so i will make sure to ask when i get to that spot

ill keep you posted

[Shaolin Wookie]

Thanks guys...

I'll continue playing with it until I understand it a little better. To GT--yeah, that's the spot exactly. When I asked some of the better guys with mantis, they asked to see my form. I did it. Then they said--keep practicing it before you take the plunge into that particular application..... .....

But it is good advice. There's a lot of useful stuff in there, and I haven't had it for very long...and hell, like I found out last week, my backsweeps are gettin' rusty...so I have plenty of other things to worry about....haha...

So I'll just play with it and think about it...

Nothing new.

[brucereiter]

Shaolin Wookie check your pm's please

[Shaolin Wookie]

Yeah...about that post. I got rid of it after I cooled down a bit.


I thought it would spark a conversation, but I was sure it would turn into bickering.

For those who didn't see it: I just flared up after an assistant internal arts instructor told me how "ineffective" the forceful techs of the external program were against his "superior" internal techs. It kind of got me ****ed, b/c he crossed the line in decency. I rarely talk about one being better than the other (I do both). They're mutually reinforcing. I can't imagine one without the other. But he slipped in his little underhanded slight with the intent of ****ing me off, b/c I was practicing my Double Dagger form before class and he was going to help teach the Yin/Yang dagger form (which I love). He then starts pointing out (unasked, interrupting me) that certain movements were "unsophisticated"......(well, I kind of wanted to show them how unsophisticated they could be). I asked him why. He said, basically, "nah, nah nah, nah nah, nah," with a real smug smile on his face. Didn't offer any criticism. Just said...."they're unsophisticated." Well, I'm pretty good at that form. I understand it, and I love it. I'll always be open to tips and apps....but to come up and say: "That's sooo unsophisticated.....?" That'll strike a nerve real quick.

I didn't say anything. I usually don't. I just stifle my outrage and smile, and then I bowed. But I was waiting, all class, to take a verbal shot at him.....which I am glad that I didn't.

I usually don't lose my cool. It's almost impossible to even break my cool.
Drama just slides right off me, man. I just loathe overweening pride, however. But anyway, he started talking about how if he was ever in a knife fight, he'd just do these three little slashes. I asked: "Well, how are you going to set them up? And does the other guy have a knife?" He said it didn't matter.

At that point, I knew he was just talking out of his ass. So in my post I kind of ragged on that attitude. There's a difference between internal development and cultivation and actual battle applications--especially with the Yin/Yang form. It can be useful--but when studied in the proper vein (of knifefighting in general). I got the feeling he hadn't tapped into that yet. So I suggested something. He shot it down, flat out. Said no. I said, "well sure, you might get your knife into position, and you might clear one arm out of the way, but what about his other hand." He said: "well, if I cut him, he won't throw it." I said: "Are you willing to risk it? You should watch that other hand....what if he's got a knife....or he knocks you out with a punch after you stab him, and then he slits your throat after he gets you onto the pavement?" Then I demonstrated how I might go about sliding past a guard (with external techniques), knife or no, and he stopped me. I was just trying to help--thought it would help us all learn a thing or two. He put a damper on it without even listening. And this was the experimental part of class we call "Applications."

I mean, if that's not the time to experiment, when is?

I knew, from previous push hands (at which I admittedly suck), that I could have thrown an "unsophisticated" punch at him and knocked him out cold. That's just a fact. I'm not boasting. Just an evaluation of speed, etc....and I'm really **** fast (it's my saving grace).

Normally, I don't get into these gripes with pride. But hell....like I said in my post:
"I know I'm not God....but neither are you."

That's actually been my first interaction with someone at SD (in the past couple of years) that I would actually label "unpleasant."

But for SDiscool and anyone else who saw the post--I'm sure you can understand why I deleted it. First I edited it. BUt then I saw how whiny and pathetic it was, so I dropkicked it into low orbit.

I vented my anger, cooled off. Damage done. So I deleted it. No biggie.

I'll take his class again, try to explain how we ought to share (the next time he stops me) and hopefully we'll all get along. We always do anyway.

I just thought it might be a lesson for all to learn.

[brucereiter]

Yeah...about that post. I got rid of it after I cooled down a bit.


I thought it would spark a conversation, but I was sure it would turn into bickering.

For those who didn't see it: I just flared up after an assistant internal arts instructor told me how "ineffective" the forceful techs of the external program were against his "superior" internal techs. It kind of got me ****ed, b/c he crossed the line in decency. I rarely talk about one being better than the other (I do both). They're mutually reinforcing. I can't imagine one without the other. But he slipped in his little underhanded slight with the intent of ****ing me off, b/c I was practicing my Double Dagger form before class and he was going to help teach the Yin/Yang dagger form (which I love). He then starts pointing out (unasked, interrupting me) that certain movements were "unsophisticated"......(well, I kind of wanted to show them how unsophisticated they could be). I asked him why. He said, basically, "nah, nah nah, nah nah, nah," with a real smug smile on his face. Didn't offer any criticism. Just said...."they're unsophisticated." Well, I'm pretty good at that form. I understand it, and I love it. I'll always be open to tips and apps....but to come up and say: "That's sooo unsophisticated.....?" That'll strike a nerve real quick.

I didn't say anything. I usually don't. I just stifle my outrage and smile, and then I bowed. But I was waiting, all class, to take a verbal shot at him.....which I am glad that I didn't.

I usually don't lose my cool. It's almost impossible to even break my cool.
Drama just slides right off me, man. I just loathe overweening pride, however. But anyway, he started talking about how if he was ever in a knife fight, he'd just do these three little slashes. I asked: "Well, how are you going to set them up? And does the other guy have a knife?" He said it didn't matter.

At that point, I knew he was just talking out of his ass. So in my post I kind of ragged on that attitude. There's a difference between internal development and cultivation and actual battle applications--especially with the Yin/Yang form. It can be useful--but when studied in the proper vein (of knifefighting in general). I got the feeling he hadn't tapped into that yet. So I suggested something. He shot it down, flat out. Said no. I said, "well sure, you might get your knife into position, and you might clear one arm out of the way, but what about his other hand." He said: "well, if I cut him, he won't throw it." I said: "Are you willing to risk it? You should watch that other hand....what if he's got a knife....or he knocks you out with a punch after you stab him, and then he slits your throat after he gets you onto the pavement?" Then I demonstrated how I might go about sliding past a guard (with external techniques), knife or no, and he stopped me. I was just trying to help--thought it would help us all learn a thing or two. He put a damper on it without even listening. And this was the experimental part of class we call "Applications."

I mean, if that's not the time to experiment, when is?

I knew, from previous push hands (at which I admittedly suck), that I could have thrown an "unsophisticated" punch at him and knocked him out cold. That's just a fact. I'm not boasting. Just an evaluation of speed, etc....and I'm really **** fast (it's my saving grace).

Normally, I don't get into these gripes with pride. But hell....like I said in my post:
"I know I'm not God....but neither are you."

That's actually been my first interaction with someone at SD (in the past couple of years) that I would actually label "unpleasant."

But for SDiscool and anyone else who saw the post--I'm sure you can understand why I deleted it. First I edited it. BUt then I saw how whiny and pathetic it was, so I dropkicked it into low orbit.

I vented my anger, cooled off. Damage done. So I deleted it. No biggie.

I'll take his class again, try to explain how we ought to share (the next time he stops me) and hopefully we'll all get along. We always do anyway.

I just thought it might be a lesson for all to learn.

hi sw,

i like your explanation ... you gave a very honest reply. sometimes it can be difficult to deal with peoples egos but this is one of the many lessons we can learn from practicing martial arts.

the assistant teacher in question (i know who you are talking about, i think :-) ) i am sure has good intentions even if he may have expressed the poorly take what ever you can of value from him and remember that we are all still just students forever. when we stop being a student maybe it is time to quit.

i think a better way for him to have expressed his opinion to you might be for example:
i see you are performing "xyz" like this ... well, let me show you my take on that and how i use that ... after sharing your ideas he might say "cool now go and play with that and see what you come up with maybe it will help you with "xyz"

he could have chosen better words than "that is unsophisticated" ... it might suck hearing that but their might also be value in it. to be able to obtain the value you can not listen with your ego as it will get in the way.

remarkably i have learned some very valuable lessons from people who have pretty low skill. every now and then a "moron" has good insight ... no ego no ego and no ego ..... . . . .... . . .....

no need to post an answer to these questions just ponder them.
what did you learn about yourself from this situation?
what did you learn about the other person from this situation?
what value did your anger and frustration have?

my invitation is alway open ...

best,

b

[Shaolin Wookie]

every now and then a "moron" has good insight

Hahaha.....the very words I live by....

[Shaolin Wookie]

Live and learn...I guess I'll just play it cool.

It was actually just a high ranking student helping to teach an oversized class. Not really an official assistant instructor. I think you're referring to a certain bald-headed third-degree (or fourth, maybe) sash, SDiscool, but naw, that's not him.

That guy has always been straight-up with me.

[John Many Jars]

I'm just a little curious as to what he meant by "unsophisticated". Too direct and to the point (so to speak)? Did he mean elegant? =/

Maybe you were doing the moves at the wrong time of day. Next time wait for High Tea and keep that pinky high.

It seems to me that knife fighting is a pretty dirty business and anything you can do to get out of the situation alive should be appreciated. But then again I've never been described as a sophisticated person so what do I know.

Hearing you talk about the forms kind of makes me wish I hadn't passed on seeing them. Maybe next time.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Anyways.....new topic:


I read this article...forget where ...about an SD cat who fought in some heavyweight tournaments in the eighties or something. He was a personal student of GM The, and was apparently a good fighter. The article said he knocked out some dude with a flip kick to take the title, and something about meeting/taking a punch from a big-time boxer (again, I forget who....). If I find a link to it, I'll post it.

But here's the meat:

When I joined up, I was told not to enter any tournaments. I had no intention to, and still don't---not why I'm here.

But if SD could turn out a fantastic fighter (w/ GM S.The's supervision, no less), why would our schools prevent it? They didn't before......why now? I know that's not what we're about...but....

Seems wierd to me. Don't know why......just does.

Who knows? Maybe someday when I get better I'll want to enter a tournament...in the spirit of learning. Tournament fighting does have some upsides. It's not all negative....

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm just a little curious as to what he meant by "unsophisticated". Too direct and to the point (so to speak)? Did he mean elegant?


It seems to me that knife fighting is a pretty dirty business and anything you can do to get out of the situation alive should be appreciated.

I'm not sure what he meant....but when coupled with a smug smile and a condescending tone....I think I knew exactly what he meant:

"Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah...."in a child's schoolyard lingo.

The form itself is actually pretty fluid and elegant, getting from A to B, that is. But the actual cuts/apps are really small motions, except when used in combination (such as 'Giant Python Flips the Body', where you throat slash during a 180 jump, land, stab into the gut with both knives in a 1-2-fashion, then dropstep in order to gut and disembowel)--but even then, the elegance is quick and small [ie, its a quick small jump/turn without covering much distance).

The Yin/Yang dagger form is very elegant, I believe. It's all about coordination. But you show me a Yin/Yang dagger expert who could peform "Giant Python Flips the Body" on the first try with good placement and balance......and I'll shut up. I was ****ed that someone could be soooooo closeminded to think that external guys/forms were unsophisticated/brutish. We all learn from Masters taught by GM The......and I don't know anyone with any SD acumen that would make that charge about hte guy who originated the arts.

I thought it was a poor show of logic in general. He was indicting GM The in the process........

But the point is this.....learning the form will not, in itself, teach knifefighting. I've taken a couple of knifefighting seminars elsewhere, and sat in on part of a lecture given in Marietta last year before the form was taught.........

There's a lot to think about. You have to be all-aware, because you can't trade blows. You have to get the first cut the first time, in the right place, at the right time. Stabbing someone won't end the fight. Most people don't even notice they've been cut until hte end of a squabble.

Knifefighting is pretty unsophisticated in general.....and deadly. Throw a punch at a knifefighter, and expect to have your wrist cut. Game over.......

Hell, it might be unsophisticated. But it is incredibly economical.