Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

March 9th's coming......first chance to have a class with GM The' firsthand, with him teaching a form (Golden Leopard). Gonna be......interesting.....

[tattooedmonk]

Yang Jwing Ming once said you should always have a belt tied about the waist in order to provide some support.....so I think it has a physical function as well.

This is to put pressure and focus on the dai mei meridian( also callled the golden belt channel) which is the channel around the waist that connects the meridians in the torso and the legs . It is very important for rooting and energy distribution.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Forgive me in advance, guys....I'm about to open a can of worms.

I do Shaolin-Do right now, under a Master who I really respect, both for his skill and his teaching ability. I've struggled with the Do for a while for different reasons. Some people know this...some don't. I'm sure some don't care.

Here's the skinny of it. I don't like the advancement system--I think it's too easy for some slackers to advance. I understand the business aspect of the school, believe me I do. But it makes me wonder if it's the right place for me, as an individual. Everyone asks me why I don't advance....I say, remembering a form is not "knowing" a form. They seem kind of bewildered by my reply. That always surprises me. Some of you have my same outlook. But I'm looking for outside opinions here as well. Plenty of posters in the past 7 years have voiced this same complaint. So I'm sure it's nothing new.

Anyway, I've been checking out other schools in Atlanta lately...but most of them have the same setup we have. You see a GM every once and a while, and study primarily under a Master. Each school has little variations on material. I'd like to find a guy who teaches one school, with him there on a daily basis. Is this unheard of in kung-fu? I can't find one. Sun de Yao out of North Atlanta sounds awesome, but he's too far away (almost impossibly far away--but I guess nothing's impossible [although he teaches 2 hrs. a week only...and I can't imagine great depth coming from that]). Some other schools teach something I don't want to learn. I do like SD's material, but I feel (I'm a researcher by nature) that I should get some knowledge first-hand by checking around more freely nowadays, now that I know what I'm looking for.

I don't care what real Shaolin is. I don't care what fake Shaolin is. I picked the Do because they're the only school that teaches 8 Immortals (so you know I'm in it for a lot of the art in martial arts as well)--but it takes forever to get there, and I might benefit myself better by looking about. I'm not willing to advance myself to higher ranks b/c I feel I should be able to use every skill I've been given so far. And ****.....I don't think there are a lot of people in SD that can make that claim. Not to brag or get a big head...but some of my forms look better than people's who have been doing this for years longer. What's up with that? Am I mistaken? Let's all be honest---I'm not calling anyone out.....I just need some kind of constructive input. From what I know, 8 Immortals just builds on the basics to a more extreme level. But a lot of "disciples" come back to other lower ranking students and say....hey, can you show me that form again....I forgot part of it. My heart just tells me.....look around Daniel San......how're you going to build on basics in this environment where basics are lost....or forgotten.....

That really gets me. It makes me question the validity of the system as it's taught. The question is--do I want to make the commitment to learn the Do for some-odd years to get Drunken Boxing....and weather the BS it's going to take to get there? Has anyone else, Do or non-Do, done the same, and considered it worthwhile?

I'm having a crisis here....so please....everyone talk to me about this. It's been going on for a while. I'm going to practice somthing for the rest of my life--preferably CMA. BJJ has been fun/informative....but I don't think it's what I wanna do (plus my bro, who's paying for it this past month so I'll go with him, is gonna quit).

I respect and admire the friggin' hell out of my SD teacher. He's amazing....especially regarding awareness, application, fighting acumen, pressure points, etc. He can walk up to you, tap you on the arm, and make it go numb for like three minutes. It's happened to me, firsthand. So it's not all hype. And my master seems to discard anything "Out-there." But as for the Soards---they seem hokey to me. And the CSC is an offshoot of hte Soards. As for GM The'....that new website pretty much sums it up for me.....makes me think he's got something to prove to me.....

And before anyone rips me for that---I've never met the guy. Some of his students impress me. A lot don't. That gives me doubts as to his efficacy....therefore I have a responsibility to doubt, I think.

I have questions....man....lots of 'em about the system as a whole. Do I want to be a part of a chain with so much.....history...I guess I'd call it.....

People talk about GM Sin like he's their best friend....but nobody here (in ATL) who does so really has frequent contact with him (on a weekly, even monthly basis...or am I wrong?). I'm always suspicious of acquaintances like this......via someone-told-me-this, I-heard-this-from-so-and-so means. He's around 1nc every 6 months, and occasionally for a festival class. I've been guilty of it, every once and a while.........

Well, he's coming to ATL, and I'm gonna be there. No lie--if I'm not impressed by him, then I will not be studying with SD anymore. I'm not trying to say I could beat the man up...and the hype he has to live up to is nothing if not monumental. If he's as good as you SD vets say, then there's nothing to worry about. I'll stick with it. Otherwise, I'm off to start anew. He's already got a monumental task ahead of him, 'cuz festival classes aren't always structured well.

Well, we'll see how it goes......

Please don't rip into me guys. I'm being sincere....and this is the place to bring doubts into the open air. I don't want to offend anyone at my school by questioning the validity/efficacy of SD, especially when some of them are badazz.....

I just don't know, man....

[tattooedmonk]

Besides....they kind of look cool when they're long enough (I always have perfect belt flap droopage w/ a size 5).

So how much exaggeration is being used here??

[Shaolin Wookie]

This is to put pressure and focus on the dai mei meridian( also callled the golden belt channel) which is the channel around the waist that connects the meridians in the torso and the legs . It is very important for rooting and energy distribution.

TTM...you're like a fount of information....thanks dude...

[The Xia]

The only person who deserves unearned respect is your Sifu.

I disagree with this. A sifu should earn your respect by having the skills he claims to have and being a good teacher. If he doesn't have those two things, why even study with him?

[kwaichang]

You guys amaze me , so you are going to quit even though you have seen what is out there in the SD system. You need patience why shouldnt you wait to be taught the 8 immortals?? The ego oozes from your words and pores. GMT does not feel the need to impress and he shouldnt need to, you are studying an art not the man. Many can teach but not all can do. We are all limited in some way. I feel your expectations are a little exaggerated and unfair. You seem to be putting God like qualities in your mind onto a humanbeing. An exceptional one but a man nontheless.
BTW just because one cant remember the sequence of a form learned 10 years ago means nothing , once your body squeezes the essence of the form from it it is good to go on and "do" something else , say your current stuff. KC

[The Xia]

If you are interested in 8 Immortals, I'd suggest PMing Tungmojingjung and talking to him about it.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Two friggin' years of practice, nearly every day for several hours constitutes some kind of commitment, doesn't it? I know it's not much in the long run...but it's not nothing man.....

Who knows, maybe there's a better school out there for me......
Please don't turn into an SD troll.

[Shaolin Wookie]

If you are interested in 8 Immortals, I'd suggest PMing Tungmojingjung and talking to him about it.

I know...but it's not everything I'm interested in.......
Just like the thing I'd like to work at.....to perfect......
But yeah, I dug up that thread the other day where he was talking about it.
Only thing is, he's in Cali. I'm on the other coast.

[BoulderDawg]

I've never met GM Sin.
I've never even seen him in person.
To me he is a photograph and a rather strange persona who wants to seek immortality in a sense-deprivation tank.
I think my doubts are justified.

Just adding my observations on Sin The.

He's just a man like anyone else. I go up and "Glad to meet ya" and if he's teaching me I'm not afraid to ask a question.

In any case, I find it a little strange that he doesn't really teach and train that much. For example he'll come to Denver for a two day festival once a year. And even then the form is only taught on saturday. For me, I simply cannot pick up a form in one day no matter who teaches it. I'd rather see him come for a 1-2 week period.....Maybe I could actually learn something if taught it for a solid week.

************

Just another comment about the "slackers" advancing. I agree and this is my main bone of contention with the program.

[The Xia]

who wants to seek immortality in a sense-deprivation tank.

He wants to do this?

[Lamassu]

Shaolin Wookie,

I understand your frustration with the whole setup of SD, but as you already mentioned, most other martial art schools are the same way. I wouldn't be concerned about the advancement of slackers, because no matter what other school you go to, the slackers will still advance like they do in SD. There's simply no avoiding that environment, since the basis of these schools is to make money. If you want to learn 8 Immortals, then I suggest you either be patient in your current training in SD or else find another CMA that offers the 8 Immortals. I would be careful though, if you flitter about from school to school in search of the elusive form, then you'll never learn it because you never stay in a system long enough to reach that point. As for GM The, I've met the man a couple of times in Austin, and no we're not good buddies, but I do respect him and consider him a great teacher, simply because I had a conversation with him and found him to be sincere. I encourage you to approach him when he comes to Atlanta, and ask him your questions. Regardless what these other trolls say (yes, SD has some, but so does every other CMA, and quite a few on this forum), you should give SD some more time with your training because, yes you've been training for over two years, but you're training has so far only been two years.

Personally, I find my goals and intent change over the years as I progress in my training. When I first started 6 years ago, I simply wanted to study kung fu and get my black belt. As I progressed through belt ranks, I wanted to learn new material constantly, because I enjoyed the learning process and wanted more. Once I earned my 1st degree black belt, I wanted to excel and branch out and start my own school. Nowadays, I simply focus on the forms I know and try to get more intimate with them. I'm alone here in Chicagoland as far as SD is concerned, and so the whole school mentality and process are gone, so I must turn my training inward and "be" the forms instead of merely "doing" the forms. Once the trappings of being in a school are gone, you'll be suprised at how versatile the forms you know really are. I'm bringing this up only because, you may find your goals change over the years of training, and that special day when you start learning 8 Immortals, your outlook on the system and what you've learned previously may have changed dramatically by then. You may find yourself thinking that 8 Immortals is just another form, but that forms themselves, all have profound value and require years of study long after you've left the school.

[Lamassu]

I don't think your bashing him. I think you should talk to him and ask your questions. My experience with him may not be like yours.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Personally, I find my goals and intent change over the years as I progress in my training. When I first started 6 years ago, I simply wanted to study kung fu and get my black belt. As I progressed through belt ranks, I wanted to learn new material constantly, because I enjoyed the learning process and wanted more. Once I earned my 1st degree black belt, I wanted to excel and branch out and start my own school. Nowadays, I simply focus on the forms I know and try to get more intimate with them. I'm alone here in Chicagoland as far as SD is concerned, and so the whole school mentality and process are gone, so I must turn my training inward and "be" the forms instead of merely "doing" the forms. Once the trappings of being in a school are gone, you'll be suprised at how versatile the forms you know really are. I'm bringing this up only because, you may find your goals change over the years of training, and that special day when you start learning 8 Immortals, your outlook on the system and what you've learned previously may have changed dramatically by then. You may find yourself thinking that 8 Immortals is just another form, but that forms themselves, all have profound value and require years of study long after you've left the school.

Thanks dude. that's the kind of reply I'm looking for. I appreciate your input greatly.

But I'm not even that far.....and I dont want to advance. I don't think I'll ever make it to 4th degree. I'm not being impatient. I'm being overbearingly patient. I probably wont advance to black belt until 3 years in maybe more.........and I practice every day to get everything perfect, I'm in great shape, and I'm athletic.....how will I ever make it to 4th or 5th unless i sell out and become part of the machine?