View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #4876
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamassu View Post
    A month is enough time?! I don't care what martial art you study, the only way that is ample time to decide if the school you joined is right for you is if you're WAY off track, like say: "I want to focus on takedowns and ground fighting, and I end up in a wushu class!" You're still a white belt in one month's time for pete's sake! The core, the heart of ANY martial art cannot be ascertained in only ONE month's time!
    I disagree, someone who has done enough research about martial arts and has an eye for what's what will be able to tell right away if something is the real deal or not. That aside, I think one month is enough for you to see how things are run and decide if that style is right for you. You may not go deep into the style in a month but you get a taste. And a taste is all it takes to see if you like something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamassu View Post
    The way I see this so far is that KC wants Shaolin Wookie to wait too long and you want him out immedietly. I question your motives. Are you really concerned about Shaolin Wookie's CMA progress, or is it a chance for you to encourage a skeptic to leave Shaolin Do? I have faith in Shaolin Do, so much in fact that I WANT Shaolin Wookie to go out and explore and see for himself that all the other martial art schools out there are no different and NO BETTER than us!
    If you've read through the bulk of my posts in this thread, you probably know my opinions about SD, so that's the view I'm coming from. You are free to feel the way you do about SD but I'm also free to feel the way I do. And just as you are free to comment based on the way you feel, so am I.
    Last edited by The Xia; 02-11-2007 at 07:47 PM.

  2. #4877
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    Nopers

    I think , as most have said, 10 years hardly scratches the surface. in any martial art. I trained in other systems for 10 years or more it only gave me greater insight to the MA KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  3. #4878
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    To Shaolin Wookie

    So there you have it. I believe you have more than enough imput within these past two pages of the post to make your decision. You have BLIND FAITH in Shaolin Do, and you have venemous words of those who don't care about you but simply hate Shaolin Do for their own delusional reasons. You are about to start a journey in self discovery, and regardless which path you end up taking, remember that ALL comments posted INCLUDING my own are asinine opinions and NO ONE knows what's best for you, but you.
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit.
    - Aristotle

    The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  4. #4879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamassu View Post
    You have BLIND FAITH in Shaolin Do, and you have venemous words of those who don't care about you but simply hate Shaolin Do for their own delusional reasons.
    I take exception to that rematk. He gets 2 'non-praise for everything SD' and you chalk it up to hate of SD for delusional reasons? I have no personal bias for or against SD. I couldn't care less whether he stays or not.

    You're certainly not doing anything to put SD in a good light with comments like that.

    And for the record nobody is saying you can get insight into the essence of a system in one month. What we're saying is that's long enough to see what's offered and how it's tught. Obviously if you see something of interest then stick with it a little longer to make a better decision.

    I'm sure after 2 years he has a good idea of how the training goes there or are you suggesting it changes drastically for the better after a certain period of time?

    What changes after 1st Black? All of a sudden you start sparring? All of a sudden they start teaching apps for every technique/form?

    If you're learning crap the first month you're probably going to learn crap the following 1, 2, 3 years down the road. If you're looking to fight and the advanced students tell you there is no sparring class why stick around?

    Apparently application is less then what he's comfortable with and the instruction is not what he expects from a martial arts school. If it's lacking in the first year it's likely to be lacking in the second year.
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  5. #4880
    Just something that's crossed my mind:

    How would someone handle leaving?

    For example, if you were going to leave at the end of Feburary would you announce that now? Or would you wait until the last night and say "Goodbye folks!"? or would you simply leave and not say anything?

    I go for not saying any goodbyes until the last night you are there. Because we all know human nature and no matter your excuse for leaving they'll be people there who will take it personally. That last week or so could be tough.

  6. #4881
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Tradition comes from the latin word traditio meaning to hand over or pass down. Having a belt ranking system is part of a new and different tradition . It does not make it any less "traditional " because it is used. I see this view as being shallow and non intrinsic. Nor does the uniform , the terminology/ language, or any of the outward appearances or physical/ symbolic rituals ,because of variation, make it any less traditional. What makes it traditional or not is whether it is taught, learned, and practice the same way for multiple generations. With all the same discipline , honor , respect , and loyalty,
    Hey dude.

    That post you quoted was just the explanation of another post, which, if you read, had nothing to do with judging the relevance of one tradition over another. I was just clarifying what I meant by a word in the above post. Learn 2 internet, fool.

  7. #4882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    I take exception to that rematk. He gets 2 'non-praise for everything SD' and you chalk it up to hate of SD for delusional reasons? I have no personal bias for or against SD. I couldn't care less whether he stays or not.

    You're certainly not doing anything to put SD in a good light with comments like that.

    And for the record nobody is saying you can get insight into the essence of a system in one month. What we're saying is that's long enough to see what's offered and how it's tught. Obviously if you see something of interest then stick with it a little longer to make a better decision.

    I'm sure after 2 years he has a good idea of how the training goes there or are you suggesting it changes drastically for the better after a certain period of time?

    What changes after 1st Black? All of a sudden you start sparring? All of a sudden they start teaching apps for every technique/form?

    If you're learning crap the first month you're probably going to learn crap the following 1, 2, 3 years down the road. If you're looking to fight and the advanced students tell you there is no sparring class why stick around?

    Apparently application is less then what he's comfortable with and the instruction is not what he expects from a martial arts school. If it's lacking in the first year it's likely to be lacking in the second year.
    *sigh*

    You're right, by striking back at those that attack SD with no basis to do so, who even think that it's nothing more than a series of websites on the net, or gloss over what's stated in those websites with over generalization, or criticize it's technique without even experiencing it first hand... aren't I the heel to think less of those who think less of me and mine?

    Sparring begins once you earn your yellow belt, and learning practical applications start at day one. These of course differ from instructor to instructor, though a poor instructor doesn't accurately represent other kwoons or the system itself, so it depends on who's teaching the student. What happens after you receive your 1st degree bb is you learn more complex and longer forms, in fact that's all you learn (while you do more sparring and practical application). After you receive your bb, you are expected to be mature and clever enough to figure out various practical applications on your own, and no, they may not be what the original intent of the form may be, but that's the point, to discover new practical applications from these forms and to challenge the student both physically and mentally. Has ANYONE here on this forum ever just THINK about a form they learned and what the practical applications are on their own?!! Why is this such a bizzare concept to everyone??!!

    BTW, CMA trolls, when GMT talks about achieving immortality through a sensory deprivation tank, he doesn't mean it literally! Does anyone here even know what a sensory deprivation tank is?!! It's pretty self explanitory to me, GMT puts himself in an environment where he can neither see, nor hear, nor smell, nor touch, nor taste the outside world, so he won't be distracted and can therefore focus on various forms, philosophies, beliefs...whatever! He's not the first person to do this and he won't be the last.

    The arrogance of those who belittle SD, with practically NO knowledge of it or it's forms, can only be matched by their ignorance!
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit.
    - Aristotle

    The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  8. #4883
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamassu View Post
    *sigh*

    You're right, by striking back at those that attack SD with no basis to do so, who even think that it's nothing more than a series of websites on the net, or gloss over what's stated in those websites with over generalization, or criticize it's technique without even experiencing it first hand... aren't I the heel to think less of those who think less of me and mine?
    Have you read the things anti-SD people say on this thread? My opinions are based on the information I've read about the system and the skill I've seen of practitioners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamassu View Post
    BTW, CMA trolls, when GMT talks about achieving immortality through a sensory deprivation tank, he doesn't mean it literally! Does anyone here even know what a sensory deprivation tank is?!! It's pretty self explanitory to me, GMT puts himself in an environment where he can neither see, nor hear, nor smell, nor touch, nor taste the outside world, so he won't be distracted and can therefore focus on various forms, philosophies, beliefs...whatever! He's not the first person to do this and he won't be the last.
    So are you saying that Sin The's way of telling people that he wants to spend some time alone is announcing that he is going to achieve immortality through a sensory depravation tank?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lamassu View Post
    The arrogance of those who belittle SD, with practically NO knowledge of it or it's forms, can only be matched by their ignorance!
    I read about the system, read what people said about it, and have watched SDers doing forms. I guess I'm arrogant for forming an opinion based on that.
    Last edited by The Xia; 02-11-2007 at 09:20 PM.

  9. #4884
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    Wow.... Youd think people **** gas.

    This subject is like a hydra... cut its head off once and seven more debates grow out of the wound...
    I havent browsed these forums in quite some time.... Over a year.
    I trained SD.
    I am the one and only person here to hold the official moniker of Shaolin-Do.
    I was proud of it once... I was also young and foolish. Its kinda like how you think Bud Ice is the greatest beer on earth.... Until you try an import.
    No one wants to admit that what they work so hard for may not be what it was believed to be in the beginning. Everyone wants to cling on to the last bit of hope that what they have been told and believed as truth to be real, whether or not it goes against their better judgement.
    I ask only one thing of you that study SD and continue to believe in it...
    If you are training for fun, for health, or simply for something to do, by all means rid yourself of the burden of debating senselessly on online forums and enjoy what it is that you do. If you wish to learn how to fight however... Find an MMA student, Judo, Brazilian Jiujitsu, or Muay Thai student, and spar with them. See what you can use that you have learned. Dont tell me "Its too Deadly", because its not. I studied SD for about 2 years, and I have a great deal of respect for the people I trained with because in all honesty they treated me like family. The art I learned however, regardless of how cool some of the moves may look, was not anything that I would call effective. Its even to the point that anything besides some of the basic punches and kicks could get you seriously injured in a real confrontation.
    Train hard and love what you do, but keep yourself grounded. Dont lose touch with reality. Its hard to let go of something you have worked hard to achieve, but open your eyes. The truth is right in front of you....
    "i would show them 8 hours of animal porn and beheadings in a single sitting then make them write a paper about italy." -GDA
    "he said there were tons of mantids fornicating everywhere. While he was there, he was sending me photos of mantis porn regularly." - Gene Ching

  10. #4885
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    To Xia

    I think you're one of the few who criticize and express your opinion in a respectful manner. I understand that not everyone will like SD, but to insult people who do like it is pretty demeaning, and you can't admit that we SDer's, well, not most of us anyway, deserve to be treated like that, or like we're some joke. It's crap like that, that deterioates any meaningful conversation we try to have on this forum into mud slinging. It just seems like everytime one of us puts in our two cents about something, we're ridiculed right off the bat. I still spent 6 years of my life training in forms, sparring a wide variety of partners from little guys to giants, from white belts to 6th degree black belts. I still go home and practice my forms so that I maintain them in my muscle memory, and I still do about half an hour of stance training every day.

    As for GMT striving for "immortality" in a sensory deprivation tank, I don't take that literally, and it's stupid to think otherwise.

    For the record, I agree with you and Yao Sing that Shaolin Wookie should venture out and experiment with other schools, but for different reasons other than yours.
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit.
    - Aristotle

    The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  11. #4886
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    Just understand that SD has been a subject on this forum as long as this forum has existed... This is nothing new. Some people have become callous in talking to others about it over time.
    It does seem however, that the overwhelming majority of SD students who still believe whole heartedly in it and its capabilities, do not have much experience in "combat arts".
    I left SD for Shuai Chiao, BJJ, and Muay Thai.
    Its harder on the body, but for fighting, its more real.
    I can simply equate it with learning to cook reading cook books without ever firing up the stove. Maybe you looked at your pots and pans, even tasted the sugar... But understanding how it all works together in action is integral to success.
    What you study will however, at least keep you healthy, both mentally and physically. (So long as you continue to love what you do)
    And in all honesty, if you believe in what you do, and enjoy it, does it really matter what people on an internet forum have to say?
    And a CMA forum for f*cks sake? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
    Half the people here are working just as hard to become a level 14 wizard as they are at learning to fight.
    (Lightning bolt!)
    "i would show them 8 hours of animal porn and beheadings in a single sitting then make them write a paper about italy." -GDA
    "he said there were tons of mantids fornicating everywhere. While he was there, he was sending me photos of mantis porn regularly." - Gene Ching

  12. #4887

    correction :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by John Many Jars View Post
    If you're having doubts about how you're measuring up to other arts, then hook up w/ people outside of your school to see how you compare.
    i have always though it was a good idea to meet with people from other schools and systems to "compare notes" doing so is one of the things that has affirmed many of the lessons i have learned from shaolin do.


    Quote Originally Posted by John Many Jars View Post
    I don't think Master Grooms studied w/ the Soards so any changes he made to forms wouldn't have been from them. =/

    my teacher sr master grooms earned his first degree black belt under the soards when he lived in denver and learned almost everything from 1st to 2nd Black from them. Everything else with a couple of exceptions he got directly from grandmaster the'.

    As far as “tweaking” of forms teachers try to teach as they were taught sometimes small things change but most of the material has been consistent since I started. I have noticed when visiting other sd schools that people do the forms different even from school to school under the same master …

    at some point in your training you will perform some "moves" in your own way with your own understanding instead of your teachers understanding but while you are at the beginning of the learning process you will need to rely on your teachers "understanding" since at that point you might have no basis to make your own decisions from ... :-)

    best,

    b
    best,

    bruce

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  13. #4888
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    I have always found it interesting that if people stick around for any length of time, of the ones who quit, most seem to quit after six months or two years. These time tables have been found to be the exact same length of time as the "infatuation" stage in dating. What's funny, is that so many people who end up leaving shaolin do around these time tables, are also the ones who spout out the most on their own behalf: "I train X amount of hours every day" "I have the most respect for my teacher" "I work very hard" etc. This always strikes me as pretty funny, since it's often really hard to find faults in ourselves when we're breaking up with someone as well. And sometimes, which is hard to admit too, there's no one at fault...y'all just don't mesh.

    Man, sometimes you just don't want to do what it is you're doing after the infatuation has worn off. No biggie. It seems like you either A) really want someone to tell you why you should stay, or B) tell you why you should leave. In other words, it's like you're trying to rationalize your decision with a message board...you know setting up some sort of self-determination based on what you get here. And for the most part, we really only pay attention to the evidence supporting our decision anyway. Well, you seem like a pretty intelligent kid/guy/chick/whatever, and in relationships, it's good to have a support group. But, I think in this case I think you need to find an objective audience...people who don't have a stake in your decision (and in some small way, anyone who answers on here does have a stake). Deep down, I think you know what you want; I'm sure you can tell whether it's cold feet, or if you're really ready to leave

    ps. If you decide to stick around, pm me for what I think is some of the best advice I've ever received about rank advancement and learning new material. I was where you were for awhile and Master Schaefer really helped put it in perspective for me.
    Last edited by ninthdrunk; 02-12-2007 at 07:07 AM.

  14. #4889
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninthdrunk View Post
    I have always found it interesting that if people stick around for any length of time, of the ones who quit, most seem to quit after six months or two years. These time tables have been found to be the exact same length of time as the "infatuation" stage in dating. What's funny, is that so many people who end up leaving shaolin do around these time tables, are also the ones who spout out the most on their own behalf: "I train X amount of hours every day" "I have the most respect for my teacher" "I work very hard" etc. This always strikes me as pretty funny, since it's often really hard to find faults in ourselves when we're breaking up with someone as well. And sometimes, which is hard to admit too, there's no one at fault...y'all just don't mesh.

    Man, sometimes you just don't want to do what it is you're doing after the infatuation has worn off. No biggie. It seems like you either A) really want someone to tell you why you should stay, or B) tell you why you should leave. In other words, it's like you're trying to rationalize your decision with a message board...you know setting up some sort of self-determination based on what you get here. And for the most part, we really only pay attention to the evidence supporting our decision anyway. Well, you seem like a pretty intelligent kid/guy/chick/whatever, and in relationships, it's good to have a support group. But, I think in this case I think you need to find an objective audience...people who don't have a stake in your decision (and in some small way, anyone who answers on here does have a stake). Deep down, I think you know what you want; I'm sure you can tell whether it's cold feet, or if you're really ready to leave

    ps. If you decide to stick around, pm me for what I think is some of the best advice I've ever received about rank advancement and learning new material. I was where you were for awhile and Master Schaefer really helped put it in perspective for me.
    Most logical post on this subject yet....good to hear from you 9th....looking foward to seeing you at Meteor Fist!
    I've seen the same thing seems like brown belt has the highest drop out rate.

  15. #4890
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    BQ-

    Yeah! I can hardly contain myself these days. I got really bummed a couple weeks ago when I remembered/realized that I had been thinking March came after January! hahaha...I was so excited that I blocked out a whole month.

    Oh, so did anything ever get figured out about our little gathering? If not, no sweat, but it would be nice to get together afterward. I'm actually planning on taking at least an extra couple days in the area so maybe we could hook up after the excitement dies down a little?

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