Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Golden Tiger]

Oh man! They BOTH were
Anyway, I bet both you and GT would sign up for classes here
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndID=131046472

After seeing the triangle choke technique, I am a convert to MMA (only if they will be my training partners that is )

[Shaolin Wookie]

Really, I don't know how to respond to this post Here is a link to a guy in the bjj club in his first fight. He is also a white belt. The others are one white belt, one green and a blue belt. They are all fighting for the 1st time.
A must see vid is the Trell Parker vs John Steele. Trell was a H.S. wrestler and had about 4 months of bjj before this fight. Steele was 4-1 and a MT fighter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnW8myRCMew

You're not supposed to respond to it, not really. I wasn't trashing the style. I just figured it wasn't for me (not as much fun as stand-up). And I'm not a professional or amateur fighter. I wasn't saying BJJ sucks or something.........I think it's pretty effective...or my bro and I never would have went to that school. I just don't really enjoy it a150.00 a month kind of level of enjoyment, when I can cross train in things I really enjoy for less money and get twice to 3X the kwoon time. Why the hell do BJJ schools cost so much, anyways?

All it is is a story. My "flinchy" brother KO'd a purple belt. Truth to tell, I hate sparring spazzes, too. I've taken nasty shots from flinchy guys in kung fu. It was mostly a humorous story, as I saw it (hence, the we let our membership run out without going back...besides, it was one of those testosterone schools, BJJ meets Cobra Kai....sorry SDiscool....just didn't gel with those guys....) . I don't know why they got so amped up with my bro. It's a self-defense class, right? And a dude attacked him. He flinched/reacted....deed done. Lesson learned. They just made it really uncomfortable for him, and I didn't like the attitudes that popped up in the aftermath. The instructor had an attitude thereafter and made belittling comments about my brother....which didn't impress me. It's not a reflection of BJJ worldwide....just that school....and that dude.... hence, I haven't named the school or hte guy for that reason.

Truth to tell, though, he shouldn't have done what he did. Whenever I see a flincher come in, I'm like, dude, I gotta watch myself. Flinches move faster than calculated punches, 'bows and knees. Spazzes are the worst dudes to spar.

Cool vids. Whenever someone kicks high right off the bat in an MMA fight, you know something bad's about to happen. I always figure kicks are like magnums with one bullet in the chamber. You have to wait for the perfect shot (usually when a punch lands) and then you shoot with precision, for the sake of the kill. That takedown (single leg) was one of the best ones I learned....only, I didn't really learn it that well. Can't really learn that much in a month's time. As for the whole white belt thing.......who cares about ranks?

**** me if they weren't charging an arm and a leg for BJJ gi's...... ...glad I didn't have to buy one......

[brucereiter]

besides, it was one of those testosterone schools, BJJ meets Cobra Kai....sorry SDiscool....just didn't gel with those guys....) . I don't know why they got so amped up with my bro. It's a self-defense class, right? And a dude attacked him. He flinched/reacted....deed done. Lesson learned. They just made it really uncomfortable for him, and I didn't like the attitudes that popped up in the aftermath. The instructor had an attitude thereafter and made belittling comments about my brother....which didn't impress me.

too bad :-( i dont know which teacher you are talking about but that organization puts out good fighters.
sometimes when you are teaching something you dont have your "guard" up so it can happen that a student spazzes out and pops you ... as a teacher i think ya just have to smile, tell the kid to chill when he is being shown something and then forget about it.

you gotta stop by before i leave town at the end of march ...

[Meat Shake]

"In truth, TMA does have grappling. Throws and locks are in the forms but they need to be drilled"

Shuai Chiao is a TMA. I didnt learn forms though... I got thrown, thrown again, thrown some more, then got to learn how to throw.
Not through forms, but through throwing and being thrown.

Fighting is kinda the same, as are locks. The form is simply a vehicle to remember them by. To learn them you must use them consistently in a free flowing environment.

[Baqualin]

"In truth, TMA does have grappling. Throws and locks are in the forms but they need to be drilled"

Shuai Chiao is a TMA. I didnt learn forms though... I got thrown, thrown again, thrown some more, then got to learn how to throw.
Not through forms, but through throwing and being thrown.

Fighting is kinda the same, as are locks. The form is simply a vehicle to remember them by. To learn them you must use them consistently in a free flowing environment.

I don't think anyone on here will argue with that....very true
BQ

[Judge Pen]

"In truth, TMA does have grappling. Throws and locks are in the forms but they need to be drilled"

Shuai Chiao is a TMA. I didnt learn forms though... I got thrown, thrown again, thrown some more, then got to learn how to throw.
Not through forms, but through throwing and being thrown.

Fighting is kinda the same, as are locks. The form is simply a vehicle to remember them by. To learn them you must use them consistently in a free flowing environment.

Knocked that one out of the park. And I'll agree that the problem in most TCMA training is the inconsistency in training the technique in a free flowing environment. I'm curious, MS, how many regular students in your Shuai Chiao class?

[Meat Shake]

Only me and gene, and kirk the instructor for the most part...
The last couple of months I was there we had a collegiate wrestler, and plenty of people came and went.... No one really liked getting thrown I guess.
I also worked quite a bit with various random people who trained around town and in austin.
I also liked to try locks on my drunken tough guy friends to see who tried to escape how, and if they did, Id figure out how and what needed to be modified. Also worked quite a bit with my "untrained" friends to see what entries to locks would work. Its a pretty eye opening experience to see how someone who is unconditioned to being locked and grabbed responds to it.

[The Xia]

Meat Shake,
I didn't claim that anyone will get grappling ability just from practicing forms. That's why I mentioned drilling.
That said, I agree with everything you posted except one thing. Forms are what you said but they are other things too. They organize the techniques of a style. This is true but there are other functions. One of them is to condition to the person to moving in that style.

[Judge Pen]

Only me and gene, and kirk the instructor for the most part...
The last couple of months I was there we had a collegiate wrestler, and plenty of people came and went.... No one really liked getting thrown I guess.
I also worked quite a bit with various random people who trained around town and in austin.
I also liked to try locks on my drunken tough guy friends to see who tried to escape how, and if they did, Id figure out how and what needed to be modified. Also worked quite a bit with my "untrained" friends to see what entries to locks would work. Its a pretty eye opening experience to see how someone who is unconditioned to being locked and grabbed responds to it.

I would have guessed that you had a small class because of the intensity of it. That's where a lot of TMA classes run into trouble. If they want to have a school and make a living teaching then the consistency of drilling is often dispensed with as its not as accomodating to the general public. Yes, I'm saying that a lot of teachers compromise teaching the art the way it should be taught in exchange for more students and financial success. Its not to say those elements aren't present in the training, but it doesn't have the emphasis, accross the board. There are exceptions, of course, and it really is a school to school comparison (not a style to style comparison). And many of the teacher try to incorporate these elements in privates or special classes with a select number of students who are interested in that type of drilling.

Ok, off of my soap-box. Sounds like a good class MS.

[ricardocameron]

In regards to the Bird "retreat to broken leg"

Drop by Norcross on a Wednesday (8pm Brown Belt) and I'll show you my take on an application for that move. It's one of my favorites.

Could you describe the "broken-leg stance" in the Brown Belt Bird Forms? Is it like going down on one knee or something?

[kwaichang]

Think of a Jade Ring stance turned to the side with the knee closer to the ground/ floor. in this case the upper body is turned partially toward the leg that is bent toward the floor. Left foot forward right leg bent as if it is "broken". KC

[ricardocameron]

Think of a Jade Ring stance turned to the side with the knee closer to the ground/ floor. in this case the upper body is turned partially toward the leg that is bent toward the floor. Left foot forward right leg bent as if it is "broken". KC

Cool,thanks,KC. I looked at the clips posted earlier. That artist had his knee on the ground there, with heel raised.

[Meat Shake]

"If they want to have a school and make a living teaching"

This is where I really lucked out.
I trained in a backyard with a man who was at a master level who did it because it was his love.
I trained for free for the first MANY months...

[Shaolin Wookie]

Anyone know why some "broken legs" have a heel raised, and some keep 'em flat on the ground?

[BoulderDawg]

My understanding is (from the Masters) that the correct stance is foot flat. However some people simply cannot do it so heel raised is allowed.

I can do it but the stance mystifies me. I equate it to a very deep and forward bow stance with a bent knee. The problem is that the stance puts a lot of pressure on my knee and doesn't feel natural at all.