Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Somebody mentioned it being possible to get a black belt at a CSC center in 15 months. That seems really quick. I can't imagine it taking me personally (and that's just me) less than 3 years at our school (Mullins) to get to black sash. Mathematically it would be possible to do it in 2 1/2 years, but you'd have to really be training daily and really know your stuff. That's just me, I'm not saying it couldn't be done, it just seems really quick for a student to mature that quickly.

It depends on the level/frequency of practice. If I were to practice 4 times as much as the guy who does it in 3-4 years, with better focus, and greater intensity, more frequency, I do honestly believe I'd yield far better results. Seems common sense to me. It's body memory and body mechanics, general understanding, and everything else that goes into it----which is all centers on focus....which is reflected in the frequency of practice. The guy who does it lackadaisically in 3-4, or with "regular" committment in that time period........he'll have material for longer, so it may seem familiar, but he'll have diluted results, achieved with less intensity.

I'm not saying its the best thing to do, but I think it is.......I'm allowed to attend lower belt classes in addition to my brownbelt ones (for free). I do that combination generally 3 times a week (2, if I'm working more), combining the two (usually a 3 hour period of classtime, which is really friggin' cool lots of workout/forms/apps/basics/sparring/general horsing around when nobodys looking )....and I have access to it on two other days as well....though I use my Saturdays right now to do Longfist. Mix classtime with regular practice at home on days when i can't make it....(solo is just as important as classwork, I find).....and you can progress "faster" than "regular" students. Just like in college--I progressed faster by hitting the books harder, tacking down more outside resources, etc. You could say, "yeah, maybe you were just busier....it didn't mean you learned anything more, per say....".........but I find that this is often just a cop out for mediocre committment. An excuse tossed out derisively by people upset with the curve breaker (one of the many roles I played in college, when I wasn't pretending to be Superman ).


Lots of CMA guys say we learn to much in too little time. As a student/educator, I also think there's a danger in learning too little in too great a length of time.

In CMA, and on this board, people tend to take self-assurance and pride in one's achievements as something negative. But I ask--if you're not proud of what you're doing, why are you doing it?

If you have no pride, you have nothing. Why do Western virtues have to be so divorced from Eastern martial arts? Blend Eastern and Western mindsets, and I think you get a beautiful brainchild. Self assurance without self-righteous pomp.

[BoulderDawg]

Somebody mentioned it being possible to get a black belt at a CSC center in 15 months. That seems really quick.

It's extremely easy. Many people can get their brown belt in 3 months or less. Which in my opinion is not near enough time to learn the basics...but then what do I know. Then all of the brown belt long forms (I believe there are 15 total) are taught in a year(usually one, sometimes two forms a month).

As mentioned the premise being that you don't really become a student until you are a black belt.

[Shaolin Wookie]

It's extremely easy. Many people can get their brown belt in 3 months or less. Which in my opinion is not near enough time to learn the basics...but then what do I know. Then all of the brown belt long forms (I believe there are 15 total) are taught in a year(usually one, sometimes two forms a month).

As mentioned the premise being that you don't really become a student until you are a black belt.

3 months? If material is taught on schedule, and you test the minute you get your last bit.....I don't even think you could advance that quick, could you?

[BoulderDawg]

In our school there is no set schedule for lower belt material. Usually the master will just say "Break down into your learning groups". Then you are soon joined by a black belt who says "What do you guys need to work on".......

Let me just back up and say getting your 3rd brown is fairly difficult for someone who doesn't have access to a brown/black belt 24/7 (such as a spouse or parent). But it can be done and, to be honest, I've ever seen anyone fail a test. So, in theory, you could probably take a test every week and be a brown belt in a month.

[John Many Jars]

Belt levels below brown (CSC western states) basically test when they've memorized their material. So conceivably it could take as little as 4 days. I've never heard of this happening but it's possible. Once they're in brown then they follow a schedule of testing.

It took me about 17 months to get to black. Of course, it will have taken me 4 yrs., if I test next year or 5 if I hold off again, to go from 1st to 2nd.

*edit*

you beat me to it

[Meat Shake]

I have to admit....I know next-to-nothing about shuai chiao.......but if, say, I was a fool, and I decided not to check out D. Lin's shuai chiao school, would you pity me?

Actually I would...
Seriously... Please do yourself a favor and at least go sit in on one class.
You wont want to leave.
...
Unless it hurts more than youd like.
Fantastic stuff though.

[Judge Pen]

Somebody mentioned it being possible to get a black belt at a CSC center in 15 months. That seems really quick. I can't imagine it taking me personally (and that's just me) less than 3 years at our school (Mullins) to get to black sash. Mathematically it would be possible to do it in 2 1/2 years, but you'd have to really be training daily and really know your stuff. That's just me, I'm not saying it couldn't be done, it just seems really quick for a student to mature that quickly.

Even in ITA TaeKwonDo it takes a minimum of two years mathematically.

By the way, anyone coming to Golden Leopard 3 & 4 this weekend?

It took me just shy of three, but that was just being able to regurgitate the forms. I was probably in the system for 4 or 5 years before I felt comfortable "knowing" my lower rank material (not just being able to perform a form but apply the technique and undertand the different principles involved.)

I'll see you Saturday.

"It's extremely easy. Many people can get their brown belt in 3 months or less. Which in my opinion is not near enough time to learn the basics...but then what do I know. Then all of the brown belt long forms (I believe there are 15 total) are taught in a year(usually one, sometimes two forms a month)."

Maybe, but in my experience 3 months is probably too fast to get a yellow sash. That's only 10 short form (similar to abbreviated tam tui) and 10 sparring techniques (contrived drills used to aid one in applying short form in a sparring situation). In honesty it should be at least 6 months at that level, but, in a commercial setting, most people would burn out.

No disrespect to the CSC, but 15 months is way too fast imo.

JMJ, I waited 10 years to test to 2nd. I had all the material, but I took some time off in school and I wanted to really know the stuff [I]before[I] I tested again.

[ZhuFu]

In our school there is no set schedule for lower belt material. Usually the master will just say "Break down into your learning groups". Then you are soon joined by a black belt who says "What do you guys need to work on".......

Let me just back up and say getting your 3rd brown is fairly difficult for someone who doesn't have access to a brown/black belt 24/7 (such as a spouse or parent). But it can be done and, to be honest, I've ever seen anyone fail a test. So, in theory, you could probably take a test every week and be a brown belt in a month.

It's been more shocking than most realise:
There wasn't a set schedule there for black belts either at one time (although it was written on paper), it was all about who snuggled up. (Until the SDA masters complained), One associate master there went from 4th-5th black in 10 months.
The instructor in Vegas and the one in LA (current 5ths) didn't have their time in either, but they went to all the GMT seminars which gave them their ticket.

[Baqualin]

Hey JP & KC
How are the babies doing.....KC you never posted a picture?

KC & 9th Drunk do you all know your schedule for Meteor Fist yet....lets get together at least one night
BQ

[kungfujunky]

hey bq we should chat again soon!

as for the csc testing. i agree it seems fast. and you can tell in the way some people do their stuff.

but i HAVE seen people not pass. on more than one occasion. so dont take boulderdawgs assumption that you can test just to test.

also to note. in sd currently you have more forms on your curriculum per belt level. csc is adjusting their curriculum to match but it will probably take a couple years to get there.

and also. gmt signed off on csc's way of doing things. so why have issue with it? the grandmaster ok'ed it.

honestly i dont look at rank. if a person can handle themselves in sparring with respect and skill then they have taken the time to learn what they have been taught. if they cant then they have missed some things along the way.

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;742387]It depends on the level/frequency of practice. If I were to practice 4 times as much as the guy who does it in 3-4 years, with better focus, and greater intensity, more frequency, I do honestly believe I'd yield far better results. Seems common sense to me. It's body memory and body mechanics, general understanding, and everything else that goes into it----which is all centers on focus....which is reflected in the frequency of practice. The guy who does it lackadaisically in 3-4, or with "regular" committment in that time period........he'll have material for longer, so it may seem familiar, but he'll have diluted results, achieved with less intensity.

Doesn't make you ready to receive a blk. belt in 15 mo.'s, only makes you really good when it is time to test for it.

[Leto]

3 months? If material is taught on schedule, and you test the minute you get your last bit.....I don't even think you could advance that quick, could you?

I was in the CSC system. I started in mid January and was ready to test to 3rd brown by the end of March. I had to wait until April when the Soards came down for their yearly visit, though. It was actually nice to spend a little time just reviewing. (no one forced me to test on this schedule, but I was hungry for as much new material as I could process at that time.). To be fair, I had around ten years of experience in martial arts before I started, so maybe that made it easier to memorize stuff. However, five years later I am just starting to look back and reinterpret the lower belt and brown belt forms, and really investigate their uses. I got to a point where I felt like I had enough material for a long while, and decided to become a perverbial mountain hermit, to refine myself and my art. Someday soon I might come down from the mountain and see how things look again.

In the CSC, at least when I was there a few years ago, it was very possible to get to brown in three months, or less. You'd need to attend every class and be shown something new every class, and memorize everything pretty much the first time it was shown to you.

[MasterKiller]

How many ranks are we talking here?

White to Yellow
Yellow to Blue
Blue to Green
Green to Brown

?

You mean to say you guys are racking up 4 ranks in 3 months???!?

And that includes

• Short Kata 1-30
• One Step Sparring 1-9
• Bo Techniques (4 spins)
• Hand to Hand Techniques
• Numchaku Techniques 1-12
• 4-8 Bo
• Sparring Techniques 1-20
• Big Bird Spreads its Wings
• Fist of the Lo Han
• Short Stick of the Northern Beggar
• Four Door Way Break
• Flying Tiger Came Out of the Cave

5 long forms, plus a sh1t load of smaller forms...in 3 months?

[Baqualin]

How many ranks are we talking here?

White to Yellow
Yellow to Blue
Blue to Green
Green to Brown

?

You mean to say you guys are racking up 4 ranks in 3 months???!?

And that includes

• Short Kata 1-30
• One Step Sparring 1-9
• Bo Techniques (4 spins)
• Hand to Hand Techniques
• Numchaku Techniques 1-12
• 4-8 Bo
• Sparring Techniques 1-20
• Big Bird Spreads its Wings
• Fist of the Lo Han
• Short Stick of the Northern Beggar
• Four Door Way Break
• Flying Tiger Came Out of the Cave

5 long forms, plus a sh1t load of smaller forms...in 3 months?

MK Hopefully their talking about going from green to 3 brown

[Judge Pen]

How many ranks are we talking here?

White to Yellow
Yellow to Blue
Blue to Green
Green to Brown

?

You mean to say you guys are racking up 4 ranks in 3 months???!?

And that includes

• Short Kata 1-30
• One Step Sparring 1-9
• Bo Techniques (4 spins)
• Hand to Hand Techniques
• Numchaku Techniques 1-12
• 4-8 Bo
• Sparring Techniques 1-20
• Big Bird Spreads its Wings
• Fist of the Lo Han
• Short Stick of the Northern Beggar
• Four Door Way Break
• Flying Tiger Came Out of the Cave

5 long forms, plus a sh1t load of smaller forms...in 3 months?

If that's what they are saying, then it is waaaaay tooooo fast in my humble opinion. Even if you could remember it the "first time" you were shown, you need to let this stuff settle in and work only on that material for an extended period of time to really get a feel for it. This is crock pot cooking, not frying! If this is true, then I think this is one of the reasons our stuff is criticized and why it looks like ass on the internet!