Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[NastyHaggis]

My Internet-Style-Kung-Fu is stronger than your Keyboard-Style-Wushu!

Wahtahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[kwaichang]

The philosophical concept of the HUNG KUEN guy was crime therefore it did not exist. A;so you have a scewed concept of Funikoshi Euishiba went to Manchuria and trained there as well. Mushashi wrote the philosophical book Go Rin No Sho or havent you heard of it ?? The philosophy of Jigoro Kano was found in the system. Judo has not always been a sport. Also the main focus of Bushido is to serve and to use only what force is necessary. It is apparant that you lack understanding and do not see. I am not trying to change your mind but if you think the MA are just for fighting and that is what they were created for you are silly. If you train to fight a guy the hardest man to beat is one who understands not only the how but the why also. KC

[kwaichang]

Gichin Funakoshi
Gichin Funakoshi was born in Shuri, Okinawa in 1868. As a boy, he was trained by two famous masters of that time. Each trained him in a different Okinawan martial art. From Yasutsune Azato he learned Shuri-te. From Yasutsune Itosu, he learned Naha-te. It would be the melding of these two styles that would one day become Shotokan karate.

Funakoshi-sensei is the man who introduced karate to Japan. In 1917 he was asked to perform his martial art at a physical education exhibition sponsored by the Ministry of Education. He was asked back again in 1922 for another exhibition. He was asked back a third time, but this was a special performance. He demonstrated his art for the emporer and the royal family! Atfer this, Funakoshi-sensei decided to remain in Japan and teach and promote his art.

Gichin Funakoshi passed away in 1957 at the age of 88. Aside from creating Shotokan karate and introducing it to Japan and the world, he also wrote the very book on the subject of karate, "Ryukyu Kempo: Karate-do". He also wrote "Karate-Do Kyohan" - The Master Text, the "handbook" of Shotokan and he wrote his autobiography, "Karate-Do: My Way of Life". These books and his art are a fitting legacy for this unassuming and gentle man.

Whenever the name of Gichin Funakoshi is mentioned, it brings to mind the parble of "A Man of Tao (Do) and a Little Man". As it is told, a student once asked, "What is the difference between a man of Tao and a little man?" The sensei replies, "It is simple. When the little man receives his first dan (degree or rank), he can hardly wait to run home and shout at the top of his voice to tell everyone that he made his first dan. Upon receiving his second dan, he will climb to the rooftops and shout to the people. Upon receiving his third dan, he will jump in his automobile and parade through town with horns blowing, telling one and all about his third dan".

The sensei continues, "When the man of Tao receives his first dan, he will bow his head in gratitude. Upon receiving his second dan, he will bow his head and his shoulders. Upon receiving his third dan, he will bow to the waist and quietly walk alongside the wall so that people will not see him or notice him".

Funakoshi was a man of Tao. He placed no emphasis on competitions, record breaking or championships. He placed emphasis on individual selfperfection. He believe in the common decency and respect that one human being owed to another. He was the master of masters.


by R. Kim

The calligraphy at the right is by the master; that at the left is by Asahina Sogen, chief priest of the temple, and reads, "Karate ni sente nashi" (There is no first attack in karate

You apparently write BS as a reflection of your statement about Funakoshi.
Why make up stuff?? KC

[Meat Shake]

Yup.
Sure does.

I have known a few monks in my time... I could kick all of their asses at once, and Im not even kidding.
...
But Ill be d@mned if they werent some of the most wonderful and kind hearted people I have ever known.

And philosophy in and of itself has nothing to do with fighting. Your training philosophy may explain why you did or didnt get your ass kicked, but not your belief in god or lack thereof.

[B-Rad]

This thread blows.

After 315 pages you're just now realizing this?

[The Xia]

How the hell are you supposed to control the other guy's training? And who cares, anyway? You should be training to handle this guy regardless of his possible philosophical bent.

I agree.

The philosophical concept of the HUNG KUEN guy was crime therefore it did not exist. A;so you have a scewed concept of Funikoshi Euishiba went to Manchuria and trained there as well. Mushashi wrote the philosophical book Go Rin No Sho or havent you heard of it ?? The philosophy of Jigoro Kano was found in the system. Judo has not always been a sport. Also the main focus of Bushido is to serve and to use only what force is necessary. It is apparant that you lack understanding and do not see. I am not trying to change your mind but if you think the MA are just for fighting and that is what they were created for you are silly. If you train to fight a guy the hardest man to beat is one who understands not only the how but the why also. KC

Philosophy or no philosophy, Leung Wah Chew did Kung Fu and fought with it. He is not the only figure in Kung Fu history that wouldn’t fit what seems to be your standard of what martial arts are. You mention Morihei Ueshiba's stay in Manchuria. I think his experiences there are probably where the war criminal accusations came from (class G war crimes to be precise). And I think you should take more of a look at Bushido before making a sweeping statement like that. Bushido varies according to individual and time period. Here’s an interesting piece of trivia for you, at a certain time, according to one version of Bushido (which was the version that happened to be accepted by the government at the time), if a peasant insulted a Samurai that Samurai had the right to chop off his head. This is a fact. Do you call that necessary force?

You apparently write BS as a reflection of your statement about Funakoshi.
Why make up stuff?? KC.

I didn't make that information up. If you want, you can read what Choki Motobu, a Karateka known for fighting, thought of him.
http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_noble1_0200.htm

When Motobu came up to Tokyo, Gichin Funakoshi had already been teaching there for several years, and a certain amount of ill-feeling arose between the two men, who had known each other back in Okinawa. It was something like a question of who was to assume the leadership of karate in Japan, but really, the two men were incompatible personalities. Gichin Funakoshi for instance seemed to feel that Motobu did not really understand the true nature of karate. Funakoshi, a man who valued propriety and culture, criticised Motobu's lack of education -- he called him an illiterate -- and his rough behaviour. For his part, Choki Motobu said that Funakoshi's art was just imitation karate, not much more than a dance. A Japanese karate teacher named Fujiwara has also pointed out that in the rigid social ranking system of Okinawa, Choki Motobu was two classes higher than Gichin Funakoshi was and so it was impossible for him to regard Funakoshi as his superior in any way.

I don't know if much ever came of all this, but there were rumours. Yasuhiro Konishi, who studied with both masters, heard that one time when the two men met, they began comparing techniques of attack and defence, as Okinawans often do. In demonstrating a movement Funakoshi was unable to block Motobu's thrust completely and moreover was knocked back several feet by its force. Konishi heard that Funakoshi was resentful about this. There was also a rumour that Motobu had challenged Funakoshi to a match and when the two met, he swept Funakoshi to the floor and followed up with a punch to the face, which stopped a couple of inches short -- just to show who was boss, I guess. Konishi could not vouch for the truth of this, and it may never have happened. Reading all the available material on Gichin Funakoshi, he does not come over as the type of person who went in for challenge matches -- just the opposite in fact. However, if the two men ever had met in a serious contest then (this is just my opinion) Motobu would probably have won rather easily. For one thing, Funakoshi, who was only 5 foot tall, was slightly built and would have been heavily outweighed. For another, Funakoshi never became involved in fights, whereas Motobu had the experience of numerous street fights behind him and was a fighter by nature.

And philosophy in and of itself has nothing to do with fighting. Your training philosophy may explain why you did or didnt get your ass kicked, but not your belief in god or lack thereof.

I think that pretty much sums it up. I feel there is great value in Mo Duk. I just don’t like the nonsense that’s passed off as philosophy and history but is really nothing more then a shallow fantasy. Through training and acquiring a certain level of skill, you get other benefits besides the ability to fight. Then there are also certain systems of honor that martial artists have followed and still follow. However, if you look at these systems you will find that they don’t really fit the fantasy mold that people have created.

[NastyHaggis]

I think perhaps this discussion belongs in another thread, as it has veered away from Shaolin-Do, which is the topic of this thread. I appreciate your fervency with the current topic-du-jour, but it is really not about Shaolin-Do. Perhaps Gene could move this discussion to an appropriate forum?

[Lamassu]

I agree, so allow me to steer the conversation back to Shaolin Do. *ahem* Shaolin Do is the most awesomest martial art in the entire world and nothing comes remotely close to it's kewlness!!!

[kungfujunky]

I agree, so allow me to steer the conversation back to Shaolin Do. *ahem* Shaolin Do is the most awesomest martial art in the entire world and nothing comes remotely close to it's kewlness!!!

lmao

classic

[ninthdrunk]

How many of y'all are going to be in Kentucky for the seminar? I'd like to put a few more faces with names.

I'm pretty pumped about it, but to be honest, I'm more excited about second ground monkey, which seems to keep being just out of my reach!

[kungfujunky]

i wont be there

but i will be seeing ground monkey in sept! cant wait!

hey who had the question on white monkey steals the peach?

[kungfujunky]

Alright.....apps time....

Anyone have White Monkey Steals the Peach?

At the beginning of section 2, when you turn and flourish to the right hip,
then step forward with the left foot and flourish.....


I was told this was a sweep. Didn't have it demonstrated, b/c at the time I was just trying to memorize the movements.

Does anyone know how this works? It's unlike anything I've seen so far.

just saw this last month and have it down solid
yes


it is an uprooting sweep with a wrist trap or arm trap to get them to the ground. then you do that whole sequence as they are down.

i know because i was his guinea pig lol

[NastyHaggis]

Here's a beginner's question for you (perhaps JP might chime in since we have the same instructors) because I'm just a blue sash:

In "Fei Foo Hu Tung" (Black Tiger Comes Out From The Cave), the yellow sash form, after the roundhouse kick, and before the cat stance, when you move your left leg forward to the cat stance, is that SUPPOSED to be a sweep? I seem to recall hearing that, but I don't see anyone doing that. They just move their leg to a cat stance.

Thanks for helping out a lowly blue sash!

[Lamassu]

Here's a beginner's question for you (perhaps JP might chime in since we have the same instructors) because I'm just a blue sash:

In "Fei Foo Hu Tung" (Black Tiger Comes Out From The Cave), the yellow sash form, after the roundhouse kick, and before the cat stance, when you move your left leg forward to the cat stance, is that SUPPOSED to be a sweep? I seem to recall hearing that, but I don't see anyone doing that. They just move their leg to a cat stance.

Thanks for helping out a lowly blue sash!

I've always felt that the leg work is to simply move into position as you clear your opponent's grab from your right arm.

[Lamassu]

How many of y'all are going to be in Kentucky for the seminar? I'd like to put a few more faces with names.

I'm pretty pumped about it, but to be honest, I'm more excited about second ground monkey, which seems to keep being just out of my reach!

Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it. I have a couple of weddings to go to later in the spring (including my own ), so my pennies will be for plane tickets and wedding stuff.