Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Lamassu]

and so, to conclude the thread, the answer is no

This thread will never end; nor should it.

[cjurakpt]

This thread will never end; nor should it.

this is the thread that never ends
it just goes on and on my friends
some people started posting here not knowing what it was
and they'll continue posting here forever just because...
(repeat from beginning)

1,000 samolians to the geek that knows where this comes from...

[tattooedmonk]

and so, to conclude the thread, the answer is no

What do you know about SD?? Do you have a high rank in it, have you practiced it for a long period of time ,have you been to advanced black belt seminars?? How many forms do you know??

[tattooedmonk]

No dude... trust me.

The honest simularites shared by CLF & SD is that both use hands to hit, feet to kick. That's about as far as that dance goes.

Actually CLF is part of SD from what I have heard. I understand that EML has most of the whole system taught to him by GMT. SD is more like any CMA and kung fu than most of you might realize. You will never know until you are on the inside and on the receiving end of an @$$whipping. You all focus on the non intrinsic aspects , which really sucks for you. By the way I have material up to sixth , so it is probably taught around 7th or 8th, if it is true

[sean_stonehart]

Wow... and you believe that...

Tell you what... why not do two things...

1) Ask where the 5 Animal form comes from at your 4th to 5th degree.
2) Go watch a CLF class with Ng Fu Han or other CLF players in LA & come back & tell us honestly where you see CLF anywhere in SD.

[djcaldwell]

Actually CLF is part of SD from what I have heard. I understand that EML has most of the whole system taught to him by GMT.

From the brief stuff that I have seen and I don't know anything other than what I have seen with my own eyes - it does not have any attributes of CLF...sorry.

SD is more like any CMA and kung fu than most of you might realize.

Dude, figuratively speaking you are staning in a room of Chinese Martial Artists and saying tht it is more like CMA than they realize? It's like standing in the doctors office and arguing that your symptoms are more like some exotic disease when he's telling you that you have a simple cold.

You will never know until you are on the inside and on the receiving end of an @$$whipping.

This is customarily the last resort argument from one on the loosing end of it. Basically a WHATEVER...statement.

You all focus on the non intrinsic aspects , which really sucks for you. By the way I have material up to sixth , so it is probably taught around 7th or 8th, if it is true

Here is where I find amusement and what made me really post after lurking on this thread for a while. You argue it's validity and content and endorse the fact that it certainly has CMA or excuse me specifically "shaolin" attributes. I think you are mistaking techniques and what not that may have been "influenced" or poorly mimiced for actual integration of specific techniques and executions.

There is no argument from me that you can adopt a technique from another system and integrate it - big ups that's great. However, when techniques are integrated they are usually done the way they are from the other style or **** near close to it. Nothing I have seen looks or moves like CMA - it looks and moves like Karate / Kempo - I have 2 black belt Kemp stylists in my family - I know what that looks like.

Finally, the point I was getting at is you are professing the validity of these techniques and teachings but state that you have material up to the 6th but the "CMA Stuff" is introduced in the 7th or 8th - COME ON!!!

I'm not knocking the system - I don't know it and don't care about it but if your going to make statments like this and debate the point so adamently then at least have some 1st hand knowledge of what you are saying. Basically you just said = It's there! I haven't seen it yet myself... but I'm telling you it's there.

[tattooedmonk]

Wow... and you believe that...

Tell you what... why not do two things...

1) Ask where the 5 Animal form comes from at your 4th to 5th degree.
2) Go watch a CLF class with Ng Fu Han or other CLF players in LA & come back & tell us honestly where you see CLF anywhere in SD.

I have and it does.

[sean_stonehart]

I have and it does.

Ok... then please describe the different gings from CLF you see in SD by technique & expression.

This should be simple if your beliefs are correct.

[tattooedmonk]

From the brief stuff that I have seen and I don't know anything other than what I have seen with my own eyes - it does not have any attributes of CLF...sorry.



Dude, figuratively speaking you are staning in a room of Chinese Martial Artists and saying tht it is more like CMA than they realize? It's like standing in the doctors office and arguing that your symptoms are more like some exotic disease when he's telling you that you have a simple cold.



This is customarily the last resort argument from one on the loosing end of it. Basically a WHATEVER...statement.



Here is where I find amusement and what made me really post after lurking on this thread for a while. You argue it's validity and content and endorse the fact that it certainly has CMA or excuse me specifically "shaolin" attributes. I think you are mistaking techniques and what not that may have been "influenced" or poorly mimiced for actual integration of specific techniques and executions.

There is no argument from me that you can adopt a technique from another system and integrate it - big ups that's great. However, when techniques are integrated they are usually done the way they are from the other style or **** near close to it. Nothing I have seen looks or moves like CMA - it looks and moves like Karate / Kempo - I have 2 black belt Kemp stylists in my family - I know what that looks like.

Finally, the point I was getting at is you are professing the validity of these techniques and teachings but state that you have material up to the 6th but the "CMA Stuff" is introduced in the 7th or 8th - COME ON!!!

I'm not knocking the system - I don't know it and don't care about it but if your going to make statments like this and debate the point so adamently then at least have some 1st hand knowledge of what you are saying. Basically you just said = It's there! I haven't seen it yet myself... but I'm telling you it's there.

1. If you have not seen much and do not know anything about it, then you might as well have seen nothing and obviously know nothing about which you are talking about....sorry.

2. I am standing in a room with a bunch of people that think they know what CMA is . So, in that case I am standing in a room with a bunch of quack doctors.

3. And what is Kenpo / kempo anyway?

4. As for the @$$ whipping part ,I am refering to the same techniques that are in the same forms taught in SD and other CMA /Kung Fu Schools , and how they are applied.

5. Last but not least I did not say that CMA was taught at 7th or 8th I said that CLF was. Learn how to read and comprehend.

Save your lecture for someone that does not know what you are talking about , then you might find someone who will think that what you have to say has any merit!

[MasterKiller]

DJ,
It's like trying to discuss Scientology with Tom Cruise...

[tattooedmonk]

Ok... then please describe the different gings from CLF you see in SD by technique & expression.

This should be simple if your beliefs are correct.

These are the ones I know.

Peng Jing (Pushing Power)
Peng is the very basic "power". It is the ability to transmit power, strength, energy, etc, thru an "extremity" (one of the 7 stars : head, shoulders, elbows, hands, hips, knees, feet).

Ding Jing (Listening Power)
Peng is considered also as the audible energy because it is through peng that one can listen to the opponent's body. As the student develops the core peng strength, work is begun on building a good connection and communication between student and opponent. Through the aid of practice to increase sensitivity, the student can precisely detect the opponent's power, center of gravity, direction, pressure, etc., as if actually hearing the vibrations. Understanding Power (Dong Jing) motivation, one can continue developing and advancing listening ability to the stage of under standing power. In other words, the mind becomes able to analyze and measure the pressure, direction character, speed, force, etc., of the opponent's movements in order to be able to cope with them properly. In most chinese martial arts this Power is trained thru Tuishou (pushing-hand) drills (f.e. called Chi sao inwingchun).

Zang Lian Jing (Sticking Power)
Through Rolling Hands Practice, Pushing Hands Practice, and practice in reversing the transfer of power process, the student develops the sensitivity and controlling ability known as sticking power. In other words, the student should be able to stick with an opponent in order to control him, attack, or defeat his attack. Usually with the initial contact between two people in a free-style fighting situation, the student can use peng to sense the opponent's hand (with advanced students the sensitivity will encompass the entire body) and there is an almost magnetic feeling. That is, the opponent feels as if he were stuck to the student almost like chewing gum can stick to the body. The special application of sticking power is the slowing of an opponent's speed and also the redirection of any kind of energy emitted by the opponent (a straight push get deflected without any apparent reason. This Power is also involved in the "unpushable man" trick).

Zuo Jing (Following Power)
By combining all of the previously described types of power, one can advance one's ability further and develop following power. This type of power allows the student to follow the direction of the opponent in all situations and respond accordingly.

Hua Jing (Neutralizing Power)
With neutralizing power the student is able to guide their following power in a yielding manner, in order to counterbalance or make ineffective the attacking and defending ability of an opponent.

Ce Jing (Borrowing Power)
Through borrowing power, the student is able to utilize an opponent's power by adapting it to purposes that are beneficial to the student's own designs. When an opponent attacks with, say, ten pounds of force, the student not only neutralizes (yields) but also borrows that force into his foot and reflects it back to the opponent, often at such an angle that the opponent is tossed away by largely his own power. In Luohan Quan this power is used at "An Jing" level for every move that appear as a block at "Ming Jing" level.

Ying Jing (Drawing-up Power)
Should an opponent refuse to transfer power, the student is in the situation of having no power to borrow from. In such a situation it is up to the student to cause the attacker to yield his power so that it can be utilized for reflection back to the opponent. This process is known as drawing-up power from an opponent. A lot of this may just be psychology and reflex.

Di Jing (Uprooting Power)
The ability to cause an opponent to bounce backward and upward, thereby making him lose his root to the ground, is known as uprooting power. When used in a more moderate fashion, i.e., by keeping peng in an upward direction to the opponent's center, this power will cause him to float. In Luohan Quan this power is used to prepare counterattacks and throws, usually combining the power of the arms with the power of the stance / hips.

Chen Jing (Sinking Power)
By reversing the practice of uprooting power the student is able to develop the ability to sink using it against an attempt to uproot him. Success in sinking power development can cause one's opponent to feel that it is impossible to uproot the student. The relaxed, connected body is the source of this.

Na Jing (Controlling Power)
Controlling power is applied during Rolling Hands practice or Free Hand practice. The student will try different methods to take over control of the situation and eventually lock the opponent into a position which will defeat him. The constant and skillful use of peng and connection are what power this skill. In Luohan Quan we all call this power the "trapping power" as it allows to lead the opponent in a way / posture that is uncomfortable and unstable.

Kai Jing (Open-up Power)
This is the application of internal power in such a manner as to cause an opponent who has maintained a defensive position for an extended period of time to open up his defenses and thus be defeated. Psychology and reflex in relation to the opponent are vital for this.

He Jing (Close-up Power)
In this case the student directs his internal power inward in such a manner as to cause an opponent to react by closing-up toward his center as a means of defense. In the process of closing-up, it is possible to trap the opponent because he is so drawn in toward his balance point that there is no way that he can move outward; thus the student is able to control the situation and defeat him. This is the perfect power to use against a bully opponent, attracting him to a "unprotected" area and then let him crash against a hard part of your body (knee, elbow, shoulder, ...)

Po Jing (Deflecting Power)
This is a specialized development of internal power. In applying deflecting power the practitioner is able to bounce an attacker to the side, or divert his force, to bring the student out of danger. Here the skill of controlling not only your own peng but the opponent's force vector (whether he uses peng or not) is critical.

Zhou Jing (Rubbing Power)
This transfer of power is achieved through a rubbing motion of the hands or other parts of the body. The motion used is similar to that of rubbing clay between the palms to form a long rope or coil. Often, qinna are applied with this for attacking opponent's muscles.

Fa Jing (Exploding Power)
This transfer of power is achieved through a burst of energy, releasing power suddendly and "overloading" the opponent. At "ming jing" level, this power is used for every "attacking" moves of Luohan Quan.

Ce Jing (Twisting Power)
When applying internal power in this manner, the student twists an opponent in an action similar to that of wringing out a wash cloth. This type of power is used to lock an opponent into a position where he can be easily defeated or just keep it secured. The internal version of this well known move different in that it relies on physical law rather than muscle power.

Zhuan Jing (Spiral Power)
Because of this screwing motion, this type of power transfer is sometimes referred to as screwing power. It is the base of Chan si Jing (silk reiling power)Mainly use in Baguazhang this power is used in every turning move of Luohan Quan, transforming a possibly weak posture into an even more powerful motion. Of course a good grounding and lower body strength is required.

Ci Jing (Cutting Power) or Heng Jing (Crossing Power)
This type of power transfer, is a clean, sharp cutting type of motion which is applied to an opponent from the side in order to disable or interrupt an attack. Used with Zhuan Jing this can produce extremely powerful moves which can inflict heavy damages.

Duan Jing (Interrupting Power)
Interrupting power usually refers to the skill of "leaving the jing in the opponent.... mainly so no return which borrows" your power can be used. This skill is very hard to train and requires a very trained mind.

Cun Jing (Inch Power)
Sometimes called short-power.... the ability to release great power with very little motion. The most famous martial artist using this power is of course Bruce Lee (the famous one inch punch), to achieve the maximum power, Zhuan Jing, Fa Jing and Ying Jing are required.


Zuo Te Jing (Folding Power)
Folding power usually implies the skill of folding the body and hitting with the closest body part, using fa jing. For instance, if an opponent holds your wrist, hit him with Elbow using fa jing or cun jing; if he holds your elbow, hit him with shoulder (Kao) or hip, etc.

[tattooedmonk]

DJ,
It's like trying to discuss Scientology with Tom Cruise...

So , once again you avoid my questions. What do you know of SD?? Do you have a ranking above black belt in the system ???Do you attend classes regularly?? Have you attended any advanced black belt seminars??If not how do you know what you are talking about??

[djcaldwell]

DJ,
It's like trying to discuss Scientology with Tom Cruise...

LOL!

I wonder if they have the "special chair" in the back room.

[sean_stonehart]

These are the ones I know.

jings

....snipped...

That's a great cut & paste for taiji jings, but that's not what I asked about. I asked about the CLF gings.

How about a simpler question... which of the CLF bagua hand sets taught in SD since SD encompasses CLF??

Also could you give me a heads up on noi lim sao? I'm trying to make it work & it's just not there yet...

[sean_stonehart]

I have and it does.

You have what??

It does what??

These answers are a little vague.