Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[BM2]

Originally posted by Lokhopkuen
Now I have known a few Shaolin do people all of them nice people but not one practitioner I have meet understood Fa jing/ Manifest energy. As with many Karate people I meet, their stances were superficial and had little or no connection to their hands through the waist. With that said and no offense intended is there somewhere I can see a video of a Shao-lin do Master who can demonstraite Fa jing? Better yet I'd settle for a strong sense of enemy in a practice form.

'With all due respect.

Peace

Can not say that I haven't seen this myself. Most likely due to the number of people that I have known but really we are all not nice people And you thought I was talking about Fa jing?
The lack of it, at least in my humble opinion, may in part be due to the rapid learning of a form then learning of another then learning of another.
One of JP's instructors should really put out a Hua or Long Fist, as those are my favorites, on the web.

[David Jamieson]

shaolin-do is real shaolin-do.

it's not shaolin, it's not songshan shaolin, it's not sil lum and it's not siu lahm.

it is Sin Kwan thé's personally created style that he namde shaolin-do to pay homage to the foundation of all martial arts.

historically, Thé is a karateka who has expanded his repetoire over the years. so it's like a modified kempo karate thing.

In the end, is it the original? No. Nobody has the original. IN fact, there is no such thing as the original. Besides, would you want "the original"? would you want a model-T car instead of a new one? besides the collectable value, it is virtually worthless from a practical sense.

food for thought, but no one can claim the original shaolin, only a foundation and all asian martial arts have foundational aspects that are the same regardless of country of origin or style or pai or any of that. different expressions? sure, different flair? you bet.

anyway, will people ever stop wanting to be part of something that is illusory in the first place? train, don't train, do it with friends or in a like minded community.

everyone is for real and at the same time a mere blurry reflection of what was and Thé is certainly not the only kungfu / karate guy out there with a questionable lineage and history. I would say that that is the case with a great deal of martial arts instructors out there whether they know it...or not.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by Lokhopkuen
Now I have known a few Shaolin do people all of them nice people but not one practitioner I have meet understood Fa jing/ Manifest energy. As with many Karate people I meet, their stances were superficial and had little or no connection to their hands through the waist. With that said and no offense intended is there somewhere I can see a video of a Shao-lin do Master who can demonstraite Fa jing? Better yet I'd settle for a strong sense of enemy in a practice form.

'With all due respect.

Peace

I can't speak for Shaolin-Do in general, but ONE of the many reasons I settled at this particular school was the Fa jing and near flawless form demonstrated by some of our students.

What you need to realise is that Shaolin-Do is what you make of it. They show you the material, guide you on fine points, but it is YOU who needs to decide if you want to do sloppy kung-fu, or really put your spirit into it.

We have students who are PHENOMENAL matial artists. When you see them practice, you think "this is how kung-fu SHOULD look, and be". Thes are the students that I try to train with as much as possible.

We also have the slackers...ya know, the 16-year-old girls looking at the ceiling the whole time, looking like constipated movie actors. I do not train with these people.

I don't want to say "our school is differant" because I'm sure that's been said by many....but I do have to say that my school does not seem to fit the shaolin-do image, and were it not for the fact that our GM is Sin Kwang The', I would not have even known that it WAS SD.

We also have students from several other systems who have moved in to stay with us. Their training seems pretty consistant with ours.

BM2: with respect, this is not BJJ. Once black is attained, there are about 15 years of training ahead just to reach 5th black, or Master in our system. The material does not stop coming....ever.

If anyone even wanders into Colorado Springs, feel free to visit our CSC and sit in on a class. You may be surprised.

[Brad]

It's one of those things I'd have to see to believe... The two high up instructers I've seen videos of just weren't very good(Sin The, & Mr. Mullins). I mean, they seem to have some martial arts skills, but not in what they were trying to perform. Reminded me of my dad(an old Tae Kwon Do blackbelt) when he does Tai Chi. He's a great Tae Kwon Do fighter and can still whoop me pretty good, but his tai chi isn't that good. He's still a Tae Kwon Do guy trying to do a tai chi form, which is the impression that I get from watching Shaolin-Do people. It's like the basics they are versed in, don't match the style(s) they're trying to learn. I could learn a 7 star mantis form, but because most of my basic training is in something else, the form isn't going to benifit me as much as a hardcore mantis guy. Does that make sense?

[Zenshiite]

Originally posted by SimonM
There is no heaven and hell.

Didn't Buddha talk about heavens and hells?

What about the notion expressed in some Buddhist paintings that monks who abuse animals will be tortured in a hell?

Peace.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by BM2

One of JP's instructors should really put out a Hua or Long Fist, as those are my favorites, on the web.

They may put part of a Hua on their site, but not the entire form.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

BM2: with respect, this is not BJJ. Once black is attained, there are about 15 years of training ahead just to reach 5th black, or Master in our system. The material does not stop coming....ever.

Wharg0ul, BM2 has more experience in SD than any other person that posts here other than maybe GT. He cross-trains in bjj.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Brad
It's like the basics they are versed in, don't match the style(s) they're trying to learn. I could learn a 7 star mantis form, but because most of my basic training is in something else, the form isn't going to benifit me as much as a hardcore mantis guy. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense, and it's a legitimate criticism. In my experience, the higher-ups in SD start to focus on a set of material and that material may strat to pick up the subleties that are often lost on the basic practitioner in that area. But without the decision to really focus on one set of material, they can bleed together and look alike--a real problem in SD and any other school that teaches parts of different styles.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Zenshiite
Didn't Buddha talk about heavens and hells?

What about the notion expressed in some Buddhist paintings that monks who abuse animals will be tortured in a hell?

Peace.

Some forms of buddhism do refer to the existence of "pure lands" where individuals can go on a fast track to enlightenment in a future life. These are similar to - but different - from heaven. They are most relevant in "pure land" buddhism, a sect I tend to disagree with on several key points of faith.

As for hells, you must remember that Buddhism tended to tack its system onto the framework of local religions. Local pre-buddhist religions through central and east asia included many versions of the underworld. Thus Buddhism in those areas also included an underworld. In those sects of Buddhism (and you must remember that Pure Land - the sect I disagree with is the most populous sect of Buddhism in Japan and one of the most populous ones in China) that pay attention to the "Pure Lands" (I do not) these underworlds tend to take on a more "hell" like feel.

In Chinese Buddhism the Heaven refered to is usually the heaven of the celestial bureaucracy; not exactly an afterlife of any sort. For a strong example of the interaction between Buddhism and local faiths read "Journey into the West" or "Monkey" by Wu Cheng-En.

I was raised in a western buddhist household. That meant that rather than my education in Buddhism including Buddhist specific metaphysics and ethics along with Chinese/Japanese/Tibetan/Nepalese/Indian metaphysics it was Buddhist metaphysics and ethics along with European Atheism. As I was raised by Athiests who had in turn been raised by Universalists my specific cultural bias is one to disbelieve the notion of an afterlife.

Everything moves in cycles; what happens now has happened before and will happen again. As such I find it hard to believe in any final, eternal home for the soul - the Western view of Hell. So I deny the existence of hell.

That being said, I am willing to allow that someone who is too bound into the aciton of Samsara may find themselves trapped in an incarnation full of even more illusions and suffering than the incarnation which those of us who are alive today are accustomed. For them that incarnation may very well seem like hell. Is that the same thing? I think not.

[BM2]

Wharg0ul, your enthusiasm and attitude is admirable. I hope you the best. JP has more time and rank than I do, he is modest.

The point I failed to make was a first deg. BB in SD has the basics down and is ready to learn. A BB in BJJ is a bad MoFo. A purple is a bad MoFo too as they have about the same time in to be a black belt if they were in another martial art.
I would rather see at a minimum of 3.5 years for a BB in SD.
But what others do at their clubs is their buisness and they know best on how to run it as they are the ones paying the bills. My opinions are just mine. If someone was telling me how best to run my club it would surely **** me off.

[Wharg0ul]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Wharg0ul, BM2 has more experience in SD than any other person that posts here other than maybe GT. He cross-trains in bjj.

I was not aware of this

In that case, BM2: Do you find that BJJ and SD are good partners as far as cross-training? I ask because as much as I LOATHE grappling, it is my opinion that grappling is a weakness in my art. There are several good BJJ schools in my area, and the opportunity to cross-train is almost too good to pass up. Thoughts? Suggestions?

AND....thank you for the complement /bow

[Ralphie]

If you want a good bjj place to go to, I train here www.bjjboulder.com Amal puts out a lot of quality competitors, and the environment is very friendly. I believe Amal is opening a south Denver school soon, too.
Cheers,
Steve

[BM2]

The only reason I do BJJ is that it is fun! It isn't for some just as striking arts are not for others. If it isn't something your interested in then I wouldn't do it to round out the small amount of ground work in SD. But at the extremly reasonble rates you pay for SD you could do both, you would be very busy to do both.

[Wharg0ul]

That's my main problem....the time to do it. maybe in a couple years.....

Ralphie: when I test in Boulder, I may just stop and see your school. They have a sweet web site. Thank you

Now....time for Sen Jow....ow....

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by BM2
[B]Have to say I admire the way you haven't let mk get too much under your skin. themeecer would be proud
/B]

Wearing blinders is easy. Removing them is the hard part.