Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

I didn't disrespect GMS by saying I think the tall tales are tall tales. They are of course... his stories. How am I being disrespectful?

I do credit GMS with teaching M Grooms but I have yet to see tall tales tied to M Grooms directly.

So I give him a slightly higher level of personal respect.

In the way you worded your statements by not reconizing M. Grooms Teacher....he is guilty before proven. All styles have their stories....but the stories directly related to GMS may not be as far fetched as you believe.....Su Kong is one thing, but I have seen with my own eyes & felt what GMS is capable of....this is what I meant by things you will never see...not mystical stuff but pure power, speed, and athletisism and at 64 he's still very impressive.
As I said you have some really good people in Atlanta go talk to them & meet GMS...he's a very unique indiviual....extremist sometimes.....but he is the real deal.
Good Luck,
BQ

[brucereiter]

Cause I feel you have presented yourself in a disrespectful way to M. Grooms & GMS ( Whom from your post you have never met) you can't give any credit to M. Grooms with out giving credit to GMS...everything he teaches you came from GMS....meet him & talk to him before you write him off.....Shaolin Wookie went through something similar....talk to him.
BQ

hi ya'all,

sr master grooms should be respected for the hard work he has put into practicing and teaching what grandmaster sin the' has taught him. i feel fortunate to be a student of sr master grooms who is a direct student of sin kwang the'.

master grooms has allowed me the freedom to think for myself and find out what works for me. the biggest thing he has taught me is how to think for myself, learn and how to teach myself. on the several occasions i have had to speak with sin the' i have found him to be very humble and kind.

i think it would be more interesting for us to talk about the content and usage of our style and also to discuss where each of us are in our training and understanding instead of bickering about the same old stuff ...

bruce

[synack]

I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone. I thought I had a legitimate question. If you feel I disrespected M Grooms or GMS by claiming to be under M Grooms instead, I'll apologize for that now. But it doesn't change how I view M Grooms and GMS's statements and it also doesn't nullify my questioning of GMS.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the school and the material. But I do think there is room for improvement on GMS's part especially on clarification of his lineage.

Personally, I tend to respect a more humble attitude. So telling stories about beating up 6 guys with poison knives and having a secret antidote and also claiming the GM of all of China's Shaolin temples seems very far fetched to me. It's just my opinion. I'd like clarification. Knowing this... I still choose to learn under his students. That should say something about his skill and the skill of the people I train with at the CSC's.

I think what I'm asking isn't disrespectful at all....but since you know GMS, I can see how you think it came off that way.

Ask him for clarification and we won't have to debate on a thread called "Is Shaolin-do for real" for 300 something pages.

peace,
synack

[Judge Pen]

I didn't disrespect GMS by saying I think the tall tales are tall tales. They are of course... his stories. How am I being disrespectful?

I do credit GMS with teaching M Grooms but I have yet to see tall tales tied to M Grooms directly.

So I give him a slightly higher level of personal respect.

If you'll notice, baqualin, shaolin wookie and myself all think that these are legends or tall tales also. But we still have a level of respect for our teacher's teacher. That is the difference.

[synack]

I see what you're saying. But how do you give a higher level of respect to someone who is your teacher's teacher.

When

1. a student should (IMO) almost always exceed his teacher in skill

and

2. the teacher's teacher isn't as humble in his public statements nor forthright?

Let's also not forget that this is a business and there is money changing hands. M Grooms from what I've read and seen of him has done nothing for me to question him. GMaster Sin The on the other hand has a lot of tall tales. I know you can simply discard them and keep a high level of respect. But for me, it's much more difficult.

As the old saying goes... Loose lips sink ships.

[synack]

But like I said earlier, this lineage argument will go nowhere. Bringing it up only causes conflict.

I said my apologies and I'll drop it if you agree to drop it. Otherwise we can go another 300 something pages.

I enjoy the school and the art. I'm just not the type of person who believes in the "mysterious" and not the type of person who lets unchecked statements go unnoticed. That's not to say I challenge everything under the sun (quite the contrary). I'm a peaceful person. But when money changes hands, things tend to get personal.

We've both said what we had to say.

Again peace to everyone SD or not,
synack

[Golden Tiger]

I consider myself to be under M Grooms not GM Sin.

I know M. Grooms was a student of Sin.

I was referring to the way [GMS] presents himself to the public.

I do credit GMS with teaching M Grooms but I have yet to see tall tales tied to M Grooms directly.

So I give him a slightly higher level of personal respect.

[Shaolin Wookie]

In answer to your question regarding respecting your teacher's teacher, try this:

In any occasion you see M. Grooms and GM Sin standing together, walk up and introduce yourself, then bow to M. Grooms with a traditional, formal, down-on-the knees bow, then get up and slightly incline your head towards GM Sin, and say: "'sup, dude?"

How do you think M. Grooms would feel about that? He'd be friggin' insulted, at the very least.

I've heard M. Grooms, and many senior students, are very protective of GM Sin. It isn't because he's under attack by ninjas, or anything. They just respect the hell out of him, as their teacher. IF you respect M. Grooms, you should respect his respects.

From a cynical perspective, if you have to take it....I prefer the skeptical....you ought to respect GM Sin for several reasons:

1. As you said: the system has merit, martially.
2. Without him, there wouldn't be said system.
3. Without him, there wouldn't be Shaolin-Do.
4. Without SD, there wouldn't be CSC.
5. Without him, there wouldn't be M. Grooms.
6. Without him, there wouldn't be you (martially).

[Shaolin Wookie]

If GM Sin seems a bit strange, or odd, that's just your character judgement. I know this: he has trained his entire life with far greater dedication and regularity than I, came from a poorer country and got a fine education at a great university, which is ranked higher than mine nationally, in a much more difficult major (from my perspective), and has run a very successful martial arts system (nationally), and from what I hear, it's hard enough for most people to just keep one school open.

I think he's a little eccentric, true. And I heard him give one or two lectures, stating many points I disagreed with. Sure, he still wants to write/make/be in a movie.

But hell, I know people far stranger than that. Take my girlfriend, for instance....

[synack]

If you call Su Kong under your own logic a "Tall Tale" you are also insulting GM Sin and Ie. The logic is just a way to discredit the messenger and not the message.

What does it matter what my opinion is of GM Sin? My opinions are formed by what I've read of his own statements thus far. If he changes that, then so be it. If he doesn't then he doesn't. I'll still like the art.

I don't see how this is a big deal at all. If they were standing together, I would bow to both of them. This can be put directly to government too... I can respect the Congress (I don't) and still not respect the President. Or even say that I respect and like the constitution and not our elected representatives for their own public statements. I'd still shake their hand if I met them but I don't have to like their policies or statements.

[Shaolin Wookie]

GM The's exact, word for word answer on Snake Training.

"Yes, I learned the Snake Form, which is the highest form in our art. The idea is that when you are attacked you do not block the blows with your hands or feet. You move and twist your body out of thw way, like a snake being attacked by an eagle. This leaves your hands and feet free free to counterattack. Master Ie would tie my hands and feet and throw me a lake or sometimes a river. I would have to swim by wriggling my body like a snake."

No mention of pec muscles at all. Swimming like this isn't easy, but probably any decent swimmer could do it in a short amount time.

On the sand burn story GM The' never said he melted a baby. He said his original teacher killed his own baby accidently. His exact words - referring to his teacher was: " .....And he picked it up...and he burned it with his hands...and it died."

My sister was a swimmer. Anyone here ever tried Butterfly stroke? The arms are only thrown for momentum. You have to coordinate the entire body and swim like a dolphin. I've never been abled to do it. I just throw my arms, and end up looking like a drowning victim. She friggin' flies.

Anyways, sweet vid posts, CW.

[Shaolin Wookie]

If you call Su Kong under your own logic a "Tall Tale" you are also insulting GM Sin and Ie. The logic is just a way to discredit the messenger and not the message.

What does it matter what my opinion is of GM Sin? My opinions are formed by what I've read of his own statements thus far. If he changes that, then so be it. If he doesn't then he doesn't. I'll still like the art.

I don't see how this is a big deal at all. If they were standing together, I would bow to both of them. This can be put directly to government too... I can respect the Congress (I don't) and still not respect the President. Or even say that I respect and like the constitution and not our elected representatives for their own public statements. I'd still shake their hand if I met them but I don't have to like their policies or statements.

Then what's your issue?

[synack]

I have no issue. Someone said I disrespected M Grooms and GM Sin. I was responding to the accusation. I was also pointing out why I had the opinion that I have of GM Sin. Because of his own words.


Shaolin Wookie - your next post is going to be evil (666)

[Shaolin Wookie]

but what you wear is generally an indicator of what you are taught.

So what is traditional garb? I've been to at least 10 CMA schools in Atlanta. Some wore silk pajamas. My longfist school was whatever you were wearing at the moment: my first day I was wearing my work uniform...hahaha....(so was I learning how to do my job (law enforcement admin.) at a CMA school?)hahaha......some wore track unifroms, one was wearing military fatigues, another wearing gi's (because they're tougher and stronger...note: it wasn't SD), one with sweatpants.......

hahaha.......and why do you think BJJ schools have no-gi classes?

Again..what's your point? I don't get it!!! You are not going to see Taoist/Buddhist monks being impolite to anyone.

Monks are pacifists.

Read American Shaolin by Matt Polly. They were impolite to many people, and they got in plenty of fights, sometimes over trivial stuff.

But generally, they were just nice guys who tried not to **** off the communist party members that oversaw the running of the temple. And they were verty touchy on the issue of Buddhism and Taoism, because they didn't practice it religiously (figuratively and literally).

BTW......before immense popluarity of the movie Shaolin Temple, there were only like two monks living at the temple, for the sake of upkeep. Apparently, they didn't really know much or any kung fu, and Shaolin Chan was pretty much gone.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Shaolin Wookie - your next post is going to be evil (666)

Hahaaha....sometimes when I go to McDonalds and get the #1 combo, large size, with a chocolate dipped ice cream cone--the total comes out to $6.66.

Coincidence, I think not.

As for the disrespect issue, I did the same thing awhile back. I didn't mean any disrespect, but I came across that way--as being disrespectful. I saw how that was true, afterwards.

So I understand.