Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

Move for move, yes. Master Sin has never been a big stickler for "this hand must go right here " everytime as opposed to Master Hiang who was. And there will always be some variation when someone learns and does a form. Personally, I think spending a lot of time on it is missing the forest for the trees.

But having said that, I can see a lot of differences in the forms from when they were first taught (yes, I was there for most of them) and drilled and drilled and drilled and some of the versions today. I think what happened is a dilution effect. Some popped up to the Sports Center, learned something once, took notes (this was in the days of 200lb camcorders mind you) then never took the time to soilidify the foundation of what the particular form had to offer.

So it comes as no suprise that when some of us see obvious additions, subtractions and just plain wrong stuff being done, we do stop and just shake our heads at it.

You always pop in just to show how smart you are.

[Daniel09]

I wish I could learn this stuff properly, but I don't have anyone or anything to learn by. Everything I can find only explains the concept and I can't afford to go anywhere.

On a happier note, I've figured out how to fall properly (aka without hurting myself).

[kwaichang]

I originally stated SD in 1981 at that time the first 6 of 1-30 were taught in 6 months. Maybe the speed it is taught attributes to the differences. Not the amount of material KC

[Leto]

yes KC, I think you are right. Now they try to teach over 20 long forms in less than 2 years, not to mention all the other beginning material. It's too much. I really wish there could have been more time spent on drills and conditioning for the various styles and weapons. The way it's taught in the west, it's like "here's this month's form, hurry up and learn it. we're spending four weeks learning this martial arts style, next month it's something different. So you better come to every class if you don't want to miss something!". I spent three years doing it that way, and stopped. Now I've backtracked to spend the last two years on my own, internalizing the stuff I learned, mostly the material through first black, and some forms I learned from GM The. I don't plan on re-entering the "system" any time soon...I have enough material to keep me occupied for a long time.
There is a wealth of awesome application just in the black tiger forms, which takes a lot of practice to master. There is no way one month can get you anywhere close to knowing it all. (I realize that the forms are revisited every year at the same time, but doing 20 things once a year is a very slow and inefficient way to learn. It would take you at least ten years doing it that way to become as proficient as if you spent one solid year practicing it. )

The average student would be a lot more solid if they had the opportunity to train the way you guys did "back in the day". Someone should do something about that

[tattooedmonk]

yes KC, I think you are right. Now they try to teach over 20 long forms in less than 2 years, not to mention all the other beginning material. It's too much. I really wish there could have been more time spent on drills and conditioning for the various styles and weapons. The way it's taught in the west, it's like "here's this month's form, hurry up and learn it. we're spending four weeks learning this martial arts style, next month it's something different. So you better come to every class if you don't want to miss something!". I spent three years doing it that way, and stopped. Now I've backtracked to spend the last two years on my own, internalizing the stuff I learned, mostly the material through first black, and some forms I learned from GM The. I don't plan on re-entering the "system" any time soon...I have enough material to keep me occupied for a long time.
There is a wealth of awesome application just in the black tiger forms, which takes a lot of practice to master. There is no way one month can get you anywhere close to knowing it all. (I realize that the forms are revisited every year at the same time, but doing 20 things once a year is a very slow and inefficient way to learn. It would take you at least ten years doing it that way to become as proficient as if you spent one solid year practicing it. )

The average student would be a lot more solid if they had the opportunity to train the way you guys did "back in the day". Someone should do something about that

BINGO!!!

[kwaichang]

When I learned the 1-30 I tried to do each one 500 times then the next etc. I feel 1st BB should take 5 years so as to promote a good foundation. Many years ago I had a teacher that made you do the forms you had learned for the previous belt before learning the next , we didnt even get to see the next form until we had done that . KC

[Daniel09]

What are the 1-30? And can they be explained in text so that I could try it?

[kungfujunky]

number 1 block punch block down step

got it?

[Daniel09]

I think so. What's a down step and what kind of block? I'm not knowledgable of what the names for different activities are.

[tattooedmonk]

I think so. What's a down step and what kind of block? I'm not knowledgable of what the names for different activities are.

This might help a little more than that. # 1. Step forward into a bow and arrow stance ( gong bu). If the right leg is forward then the left arm should be out in front doing a horizontal fist punch ( shoulder height) and the right hand should be pulled into your hip (Do not rest it on your hip), next, the left arm is going to horizontally block high, above your head at a right angle as the right arm thrusts forward into a horizontal fist punch( where the previous fist was) then you are going to block down with both of your forearms about waist height and at a 45 degree angle, then step forward............ Make sure your hips , shoulders ,and feet are square and in alignment. Meaning that you should be able to draw a line from your right foot , hip, and shoulder. Same for the other side. Get it??

[Golden Tiger]

If the right leg is forward then the left arm should be out in front doing a horizontal fist punch ( shoulder height) and the right hand should be pulled into your hip (Do not rest it on your hip), next, the left arm is going to horizontally block high, above your head at a right angle The blocking hand should stop at the temple, palm out, knuckles aligned slighty behind the corner of the eyeas the right arm thrusts forward into a horizontal fist punch( where the previous fist was)while rotating the shoulders from a perpindicular line of the hips to a straight line, beginning the drive from the left foot, through the hips, finally to the shoulders (serial linkage) then you are going to block down with both of your forearms about waist height the left hand should make an arcing path from the head to rest near the left hip, the right also making an arc to the outside in, snapping the fist to palm up to snap the forearm just prior to the stop, stopping in line with the body, elbow pinky to thumb length from the bottom rib, bent at a 45 deg. angle, fist slightly below the line of sightand at a 45 degree angle, then step forward............ Make sure your hips , shoulders ,and feet are square and in alignment. Meaning that you should be able to draw a line from your right foot , hip, and shoulder. Same for the other side. Get it??


See, same form, taught a million times, practiced even more, with subtle differences....go figure

[Chain Whip]

When I learned the 1-30 I tried to do each one 500 times then the next etc. I feel 1st BB should take 5 years so as to promote a good foundation. Many years ago I had a teacher that made you do the forms you had learned for the previous belt before learning the next , we didnt even get to see the next form until we had done that . KC

Building a solid foundation with 1-30 is critical for development in our art. We don't care much about time in the art as much as what you have done since your first class. An athletically gifted student who works very hard should progress a lot faster than an average athlete who doesn't practice hard at all. (GMT went from white belt to 10th black in 18 years. So, traditionally advancement must have been merit based and not seniority based. Our current time frames say it is a minimum of 56 years to reach 10th Black - 16 years minimum to get to 5th Black)

Doing each short form 500 times is a great idea - as is actually doing all 49 I Chin Ching every week. We have always required that a person be able to do all the previous material. To test for 5th Black for instance, the evaluation covers all the test material for every earlier rank. You never know what order you will have to perform it in. You might do a couple of tiger forms followed by brown belt weapons and then have to do 1-30 out of sequence - something like odd numbers only ascending and then do the even numbers descending - and still get done in 3 minutes. You might have to start in the middle of a couple of forms. You have to do all 5 levels of Classical Pa Kua training, know all the I Chin Ching from memory. So, you essentially have to do all of your previous tests with additional twists to make it more difficult. GMT will only test on the material in that rank when he comes to town (be a really long test otherwise) But the person standing in front of GMT is capable of doing any and every earlier rank test - but better than when they initially tested . We pride ourselves on having all this material, but if you aren't still doing the things you learned 10 years ago then you really don't have that much material anyway. One of the best quotes about our system - I think it comes from EM Smith, is: "The best thing about our system is we have all this material. The worst thing about our system is we have all this material."

[Daniel09]

If the right leg is forward then the left arm should be out in front doing a horizontal fist punch ( shoulder height) and the right hand should be pulled into your hip (Do not rest it on your hip), next, the left arm is going to horizontally block high, above your head at a right angle The blocking hand should stop at the temple, palm out, knuckles aligned slighty behind the corner of the eyeas the right arm thrusts forward into a horizontal fist punch( where the previous fist was)while rotating the shoulders from a perpindicular line of the hips to a straight line, beginning the drive from the left foot, through the hips, finally to the shoulders (serial linkage) then you are going to block down with both of your forearms about waist height the left hand should make an arcing path from the head to rest near the left hip, the right also making an arc to the outside in, snapping the fist to palm up to snap the forearm just prior to the stop, stopping in line with the body, elbow pinky to thumb length from the bottom rib, bent at a 45 deg. angle, fist slightly below the line of sightand at a 45 degree angle, then step forward............ Make sure your hips , shoulders ,and feet are square and in alignment. Meaning that you should be able to draw a line from your right foot , hip, and shoulder. Same for the other side. Get it??


See, same form, taught a million times, practiced even more, with subtle differences....go figure

Thanks! That makes sense and I'll make sure to practice it to the point where a line can be drawn from my foot to hip to shoulder. This'll take me awhile to get somewhat correct so I'll probably inquire step two in a few weeks or possibly a month or two.

[tattooedmonk]

If the right leg is forward then the left arm should be out in front doing a horizontal fist punch ( shoulder height) and the right hand should be pulled into your hip (Do not rest it on your hip), next, the left arm is going to horizontally block high, above your head at a right angle The blocking hand should stop at the temple, palm out, knuckles aligned slighty behind the corner of the eyeas the right arm thrusts forward into a horizontal fist punch( where the previous fist was)while rotating the shoulders from a perpindicular line of the hips to a straight line, beginning the drive from the left foot, through the hips, finally to the shoulders (serial linkage) then you are going to block down with both of your forearms about waist height the left hand should make an arcing path from the head to rest near the left hip, the right also making an arc to the outside in, snapping the fist to palm up to snap the forearm just prior to the stop, stopping in line with the body, elbow pinky to thumb length from the bottom rib, bent at a 45 deg. angle, fist slightly below the line of sightand at a 45 degree angle, then step forward............ Make sure your hips , shoulders ,and feet are square and in alignment. Meaning that you should be able to draw a line from your right foot , hip, and shoulder. Same for the other side. Get it??


See, same form, taught a million times, practiced even more, with subtle differences....go figure

Thanks for your help!

[Shaolin Wookie]

Ouch!!!! I kicked the friggin' corner of my bed this morning when I was stumbling around, getting ready for work! I'm limping like a war vet with shrapnel in his foot.

Them dar beds is lethal weapons, ya' here!

Why do they have to be made of that super-metal adamantium bone-shattering alloy?

Right on the top of the foot, too. Not a usual stubbed toe. Not a good morning at all.