Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Shaolin Wookie]

Nah Wookie, I just enjoy messing with a cult of personality. Never liked them very much. And when built on a foundation of purposeful lies, it becomes even more fun, as the only resort from those that are part of it is to name call and try to deflect, because to face the lies directly shakes the foundation.

FWIW - Never liked sugary drinks. Always preferred bitter.

Me too. I provoked some Scientologists in the Atlanta area about a year ago, and they tracked my identity (scary that the nutjobs were able to do so), then called up one of my jobs (Statewide Law Enforcement), told them that I was a "disseminator of religious hatred" and had "put on anti-religious demonstrations that impinged upon the copyrighted technology of the Church of Scientology", and nearly got me fired. Luckily, someone in the bureau knew how Scientology operated (which is to say, shadily), and came to my rescue. I was getting threatening letters from Kobrin...so you know I must have touched a nerve.

And all this came from a small debate I had with a couple of Scientologists on a university campus, who were offering their "personality tests" undercover to try and wheedle unsuspecting nimrods into attending one of their sessions. I managed to scare off all of hte unsuspecting nimrods, but was a bit of an unsuspecting nimrod myself, b/c I didn't know how far those psychos would go.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I doubt the kinds of women you'd attract care how big your clit is.

While I admit that my local chapter for the Coalition for the Liberation of Itinerant Tree-Dwellers is rather large, it's still nowhere near the size of the LABIA (The Liberate Apes Before Imprisoning Apes Movement).

[cjurakpt]

Me too. I provoked some Scientologists in the Atlanta area about a year ago.

I used to mess with Scientologists at street fairs in NYC by squeezing their e-meters (or whatever they are called) really hard whenever I told them that I was thinking about my cat, sending the needle way off the screen; Id also give it a squeeze and hold it when they id the initial calibration, and then stop squeezing, making them have to re-calibrae, rinse, repeat (they never caught on - idiots...); they would also do the "pinch test" on my friend (girl) who had an incredibly high threshold for pain and they were never be able to illicit any sort of response whatsoever

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=Mas Judt;
the only resort from those that are part of it is to name call and try to deflect, because to face the lies directly shakes the foundation.


[B]I'm part of it and I'll say what I've always said.... JP has said the same thing[/B].....GMS believes what has been passed on to him by GMIe (true or false) taking into consideration where he's from, I will not fault him for that......we know that GMIe existed & the school in Indo. existed along with other teachers, we've been there.....some of us know his and his brothers family...including children....they all seem to be comfortable with the lineage as it is presented.
I can go on all day long...will it make a difference, nah......do I care, nah

Did I attack anybody or name call
BQ

[Mas Judt]

Wookie, I was going to take apart your argument until I saw your posts on messing with cults. Now, I won't mess with you, not becase you are even close to being correct or even logical, but because you're a righteous dude.

Look out for the Operating Thetans.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Lol......



Hey BQ. I've seen vids of Indonesian martial arts training back in the sixties and seventies, usually associated with Silat. It was the most hardcore stuff I've ever seen. People jumping literally from fifty foot platforms to the ground without cushioning; jumping through glass; having boiling oil poured on parts of their bodies; etc. I am curious.

Considering how GM The' came up and trained (Sand palm burning, which actually seems tame in comparison), just how hardcore was his training? I've heard that he and Hiang were some incredibly tough dudes in their prime (not that they're soft now, or anything). Based on stories he tells, it wouldn't seem that out of line with the time and place.

[tattooedmonk]

minially in the sense that there is the slight possibility that you might be doing some of the moves in the forms with the same intrinsic motor patterns that you might use in gihting, and also that, in a very general sense, you are developing fighting-related skills, or are at least in the mind-set of fighting; also, learning techniques "in the air" can be a good way for someone to get the basic, initial idea of a movement, but only provided that the way you practiced it was as close as you could get to how it would look in actual useage

not at all in the sense that the above is tenuous at best, and that otherwise real fighting has absolutely noting to do contextually with forms, in terms of how techniques are delivered, how you adapt to resistance from an opponent, the fact that you are throwing techs in the air versus contacting something, how your mind functions solo versus in confrontation with another person, etc. etc. etc.

throw in the fact that many of the most skilled fighters these days do not train forms, and you are about home...

finally, if you analyze forms practice from a contemporary motor learning perspective, you immediately see that they come out very very low on the continuum of contextual interference, which is probably the key ingredient in terms of developing functional motor skill, in the sense that you need to have a relatively high level of CI in order to get real retention and transfer of a motor skill; what that means is that if you want to be able to successfully fight against a live resisting opponent, you need to spend most of your time training in that context

BTW, before you throw out the old saw about MMA guys being limited by rules and that kung-fu techs are too deadly for the ring, my point is that it's the context that is more important then the content...

I agree for the most part with what you are saying . These are the problems with CMA and TMA in general that practice forms, they practice them without disecting them and utilizing the techiniques within the forms and drilling them on a resisiting opponent, they do not demonstrate the forms the way it would be applied.

If they did there would be no problem.

I do not practice or teach this way.

I never was taught to do forms just for forms sake.I was taught how to take the techniques out of the forms and drill them with resisting opponents and always sparred and fought.

Anyone that believes that doing /practicing forms alone will help them become a better fighter is dillussional , and just a beginner.

For anyone that wants to learn real martial arts, forms practice is a small percentage of what they should focus on.

Forms give you stability, balance, flexability, speed, agility, etc. in addition, they teach you proper body mechanics , weight distribution, ambidexterity, etc.

Forms are not all of what people think they are, everyone needs to look deep inside them to find the true meaning and stop just looking at the surface

[Judge Pen]

I agree for the most part with what you are saying . These are the problems with CMA and TMA in general that practice forms, they practice them without disecting them and utilizing the techiniques within the forms and drilling them on a resisiting opponent, they do not demonstrate the forms the way it would be applied.

If they did there would be no problem.

I do not practice or teach this way.

I never was taught to do forms just for forms sake.I was taught how to take the techniques out of the forms and drill them with resisting opponents and always sparred and fought.

Anyone that believes that doing /practicing forms alone will help them become a better fighter is dillussional , and just a beginner.

For anyone that wants to learn real martial arts, forms practice is a small percentage of what they should focus on.

Forms give you stability, balance, flexability, speed, agility, etc. in addition, they teach you proper body mechanics , weight distribution, ambidexterity, etc.

Forms are not all of what people think they are, everyone needs to look deep inside them to find the true meaning and stop just looking at the surface

Well said.

[brucereiter]

Can't believe I'm subscribed to this thread, nor that it's gone for so long. I remember when it started ...


Hi Bruce,

I don't formally learn tai chi, yang or any other style, but your movements are very limb oriented. It's "empty", there's no body behind it. I see no opening or closing, no torquing, your body seems static the whole way through. Sure, you turn and move but it's driven by your feet. Your arms move but they move alone, not through your centre. Compared to tcma, it's not necessarily strange or a cheap rip off because I see a lot of empty tcma too, at least on youtube vids. The way I learn (almost?) all movement should originate in the lower dan tien and all movements should be whole body, not limb. So, e.g. at ~19s you step with your left leg, weight it and turn to your left. It's not driven by your body. If I did the move, my leg would turn because it had to, because my centre would've turned it. Hard to explain, easy to show, hard to do.

I'm sure you could develop good mechanics if you specialised in yang style tai chi, but I guess that's the downfall of SD - as soon as you learn the basics of something you change to something completely different (at least from what I recall of the syllabus).

ok ... even though you do not formally learn any style of tai chi chuan thanks for commenting.

best,

bruce

[tattooedmonk]

Well said.

Thank you!

[cjurakpt]

ok ... even though you do not formally learn any style of tai chi chuan thanks for commenting.

best,

bruce

just curious Bruce, if you had noticed that I responded to your inquiry...

[cjurakpt]

I agree for the most part with what you are saying . These are the problems with CMA and TMA in general that practice forms, they practice them without disecting them and utilizing the techiniques within the forms and drilling them on a resisiting opponent, they do not demonstrate the forms the way it would be applied.

If they did there would be no problem.

I do not practice or teach this way.

I never was taught to do forms just for forms sake.I was taught how to take the techniques out of the forms and drill them with resisting opponents and always sparred and fought.

Anyone that believes that doing /practicing forms alone will help them become a better fighter is dillussional , and just a beginner.

For anyone that wants to learn real martial arts, forms practice is a small percentage of what they should focus on.

Forms give you stability, balance, flexability, speed, agility, etc. in addition, they teach you proper body mechanics , weight distribution, ambidexterity, etc.

Forms are not all of what people think they are, everyone needs to look deep inside them to find the true meaning and stop just looking at the surface

fair enough; but here's a question: why bother to do the forms at all if you need to dissasmble them in order to "figure out" what they "mean" and drill techniques individually? why not just teach the techniques / apps as such and not waste time "figuring out" things in forms that may or may not be valid / relevant when actually pressure tested live?

also, isn't it a little preposterous to have a system of 900+ forms to begin with, not to mention using it as a selling point when advertising, especially with the perspective you espouse?

[B-Rad]

When learning something new I always learned best by learning individual techniques first, short combos, then the full form (with application and conditioning throughout the process of course).

[tattooedmonk]

fair enough; but here's a question: why bother to do the forms at all if you need to dissasmble them in order to "figure out" what they "mean" and drill techniques individually? why not just teach the techniques / apps as such and not waste time "figuring out" things in forms that may or may not be valid / relevant when actually pressure tested live?

also, isn't it a little preposterous to have a system of 900+ forms to begin with, not to mention using it as a selling point when advertising, especially with the perspective you espouse?

That is not how it works.

The forms are like books of techniques . The master takes the techniques out of the forms , teaches them to you , you drill them , then you are taught the forms, after that you practice the forms more , drill them more ,break them down even further, and discover more techniques, then the cycle starts all over again.

As for the large percentage of forms, it is like I said they are like books and books with series or volumes are like systems and collections of books are like libraries.

If someone likes to read and gain knowledge then a library would be more valuable to them than just one book. Not to say that you could not get a lot out of one book , but it would be limited.

Master Sin is the librarian of this library .

[tattooedmonk]

When learning something new I always learned best by learning individual techniques first, short combos, then the full form (with application and conditioning throughout the process of course).

Exactly!!!