Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

But mastered what??

Forms taken from other systems that he's passed off & people bought as "Shaolin" originals from the temples and that the SD version is the original?

Forms he created on his own specifically for SD?

If #2, then bully for him. That's what it oughtta be & said as much.

If #1, then you see why there's so much animus about it.

Here's some examples of what I'm talking about. We've done the Ng Ying set to pieces & there's not been a straight answer so moving on. Same with the Taiji, Bagua & Xingyi.

Tiger Crane (Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mF1V...84EA54&index=9

Pan Lung Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u47BQxoW6tI

Hua Fist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAH2YytlWf8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67acd...elated&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW7tU...elated&search=



Now for the SD Versions,

http://www.shao-lin.com/category.cfm?CategoryID=28

Videos #2, #3 & #4 in order

I will not comment on the videos your using as comparison...there not from my school and thats also been beat to death...and as far as the internal forms (since I'm internal only now this is where most of my research is)...GMS has always given credit to the originators of the forms and even the external froms he always credited the originators ...what I remember, he never said they originated in the temple, but came through the temple in the different areas of china...he even researches himself when he goes over there to verify what GMIe told him.

[sean_stonehart]

Ok then how did ...

• Yang Taiji
• Jiang Rong Qiao Bagua
• Xingyi
• Sun Lu Tang Eight Animal Bagua
• Chen Taiji
• Taiji 24

come from any temple??

BTW... there's still no credit given to Jiang Rong Qiao for the SD "Classical" Bagua or Sun Lu Tang for the Eight Animal.

[bodhi warrior]

I learned the tang lang chien form and the guy in that video really sucks. If he was a brown belt I might understand, but he was a 3rd. black. It seemed like all their forms move the same, really dance like, with no power or fluidity.
I personally think much of the attacks on sin the's character would be silenced if he would produce some actual pictures, not paintings, of him training in indonesia with GM IE. At least we would know he learned from someone.

[Mas Judt]

But many of the things that are obvious SD signatures - the weird arm only snappy arm thing, the lack of any understanding of the structure - these are things you see in the few clips of Sin The' on the net.

Going back to Sean's point, there is a big veracity question here, one that has not really been answered.

[Baqualin]

Ok then how did ...

• Yang Taiji
• Jiang Rong Qiao Bagua
• Xingyi
• Sun Lu Tang Eight Animal Bagua
• Chen Taiji
• Taiji 24

come from any temple??

I didn't say come from, I said came through...even the Chen people claim roots in the temple & 24 is a universal form developed in china and was never claimed any different....even Marshall Ho called one of his Tai Chi forms a Temple form

BTW... there's still no credit given to Jiang Rong Qiao for the SD "Classical" Bagua or Sun Lu Tang for the Eight Animal.

Your saying that, not me...besides our 8 animal isn't Sun Lu Tangs form...I haven't found that one yet, as well as our Snake & Dragon Pakua

Are you saying they don't practice Hsing I & Tai Chi in the Shaolin Temple

By the way thats a very short list of our internal forms

[Baqualin]

I learned the tang lang chien form and the guy in that video really sucks. If he was a brown belt I might understand, but he was a 3rd. black. It seemed like all their forms move the same, really dance like, with no power or fluidity.
I personally think much of the attacks on sin the's character would be silenced if he would produce some actual pictures, not paintings, of him training in indonesia with GM IE. At least we would know he learned from someone.

What some people refuse to realize is GMS is not the new kid on the block...he has been teaching here since the 60's...we have been to Indonesia & seen where he trained, met some of his colleagues...and saw how they were honored by his presence.....once again this has also been beat to death. BW it wouldn't matter anyway....anyone who is in the public eye like GMS will be attacked...that's part of the terr.
BQ

[kwaichang]

When I spoke with GMT a while back he said the system has its roots in the temple and many systems have passed through the temple and can be traced to them. He gave specific of chen tai chi and Yang as well as Pa Kua. If GMT or anyone from SD did a form perfectly you guys would still attack it. also No Power in SD ???? hahahahahahahahaha. KC

[Baqualin]

[QUOTE=kwaichang;785809]When I spoke with GMT a while back he said the system has its roots in the temple and many systems have passed through the temple and can be traced to them. He gave specific of chen tai chi and Yang as well as Pa Kua. If GMT or anyone from SD did a form perfectly you guys would still attack it. also No Power in SD ???? hahahahahahahahaha. KC[/QUOT

Good Morning KC

[bodhi warrior]

But the Yang form we practice couldn't have come through a temple, it was created very recently by Zheng man cheng. The classical Pakua we learned also couldn't have come through the temple either as it was created by Jiang rong qiao. It is possible though that the forms were picked up and practiced at the school in Indonesia. There is a book available on Snake Pakua available at Plumpub.com that I would be very interested if it is our Snake Pakua. Its in chinese though but has pics. Erle Montague also has a snake Pakua. These are the only two places I've located that has Snake Pakua. If anyone who knows our Snake Pakua could compare and give feedback it would be appreciated.

[sean_stonehart]

Your saying that, not me...besides our 8 animal isn't Sun Lu Tangs form...I haven't found that one yet, as well as our Snake & Dragon Pakua

Are you saying they don't practice Hsing I & Tai Chi in the Shaolin Temple

By the way thats a very short list of our internal forms

Oh,,, a different 8 Animal that uses the same ones as SLT.

Xingyi... never heard of it there & didn't see it there when I was there in 01 with SD. Liu He Xinyi yes, but that's different.

Taiji at the Temple?? Dunno but I know Chen Zhen li has taught it at the schools in the area that provide "monks" for shows. Besides they have Jingang Quan that takes the place of taiji.

Actually it's not a short list... it's the crux.


Please also tell me how the list above came "through" the Shaolin Temple(s) ... I'd like to know how Yang Taiji, Taiji 24 (which is PRC wushu), Bagua, Xingyi, etc... are Shaolin arts or came through it.

[Mas Judt]

I think Sin The' will say almost anything.... Both Yang & Chen have very good records, I don't recall either system being mentioned as 'taught at Shaolin' - Yang in particular is a new system, they would have had to move pretty quick before the temple was burned.

[The Willow Sword]

gwa sow? I think you mean the BLUE PILL? Most take the Blue pill without even realizing it. especially the SD'ers

Peace,TWS

[Litikuai]

As a practioner I have seen much and know Shaolin do to be real Shaolin it is these modern things you speak of that you compare Shaolin do to that is inaccurate to do. Peace to you all LTK

[Shaolinlueb]

i heard through the grapevine the monks actually fell asleep and were laughing at parts of Sin the's shaolin do presentation at the temple.

[brucereiter]

The classical Pakua we learned also couldn't have come through the temple either as it was created by Jiang rong qiao.

look up the translations of jiangs rong qiao's books he authored around 1930 +- a bit.
the classical pakua one is great stuff for any sd student

in the preface of one of his hsing i books he speaks about going to the nanjing goshu institute, as well as several other place in china when he learned and taught martial arts. one of the interesting places jiang rong qiao claims to have gone was the shaolin temple. this was before 1930 since that is when the preface letter was dated.

if anyone knows more about this please add to the conversation.

is jiang lying about going to shaolin temple?

could jiang have taught anyone "original" form while he was at the "shaolin temple"?

how do you know what he may or may not have done and who he may or may not have taught.

jiangs "original" form is/was very popular i think a lot of people have learned it and practice it.

It is possible though that the forms were picked up and practiced at the school in Indonesia.

yes it is. and i think that may have been how some of our material came to the system. it would be nice to confirm though ...

best,

bruce