Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[MasterKiller]

If you can touch 'em, they're all real.

After you've touched a few more, you'll realize that real and quality are not synonymous.

It's easy to keep telling yourself that you don't care those DD's are plastic as long as she keeps her sweater on, but after the bra comes off and you see the wrinkles and creases from the saline bags sloshing around, you'll probably start rethinking your position.

[Baqualin]

After you've touched a few more, you'll realize that real and quality are not synonymous.

It's easy to keep telling yourself that you don't care those DD's are plastic as long as she keeps her sweater on, but after the bra comes off and you see the wrinkles and creases from the saline bags sloshing around, you'll probably start rethinking your position.

Oh My God, I'll never touch a Tit again

[Baqualin]

Okay. I've accepted that it's easier to convince an athiest that there is a God with no substantial proof than it is to show SDers that there is more than what they are learning poorly - with an abundance of proof from all over. So I'll lurk and wait patiently for that one "good representation" video to pop up from one of SD's elite showing us what all these other SD schools apparently can not.

Or, maybe they will grace us with a demonstration of the deadly skill at a tournament one day so that the world can see what SD is all about and not just in a park dancing infront of non MA people....I know, I know...that video..arrgggg

There's already SDers out there in the cage....video of one has been posted on here.
Thanks for stopping in though.........I'm sure we will see you soon

[Lamassu]

Okay. I've accepted that it's easier to convince an athiest that there is a God with no substantial proof than it is to show SDers that there is more than what they are learning poorly - with an abundance of proof from all over. So I'll lurk and wait patiently for that one "good representation" video to pop up from one of SD's elite showing us what all these other SD schools apparently can not.

Or, maybe they will grace us with a demonstration of the deadly skill at a tournament one day so that the world can see what SD is all about and not just in a park dancing infront of non MA people....I know, I know...that video..arrgggg

Thank you, see that's not so hard is it? Cast off the "savior" robes and let people practice and talk about their respective martial art in peace. Maybe now, we can move on to better topics.

[Lamassu]

After you've touched a few more, you'll realize that real and quality are not synonymous.

It's easy to keep telling yourself that you don't care those DD's are plastic as long as she keeps her sweater on, but after the bra comes off and you see the wrinkles and creases from the saline bags sloshing around, you'll probably start rethinking your position.

Breasts and kung-fu! What are we talking about again? I thought the 'DOA' movie thread is on the media popular culture forum.

[djcaldwell]

There's already SDers out there in the cage....video of one has been posted on here.
Thanks for stopping in though.........I'm sure we will see you soon

I didn't say I was leaving the forum just that I wasn't arguing this point anymore.

Thank you, see that's not so hard is it? Cast off the "savior" robes and let people practice and talk about their respective martial art in peace. Maybe now, we can move on to better topics.

As if...

My comments are the sole detraction from your pursuing meaningful discussions on the board. If there was something meaningful and/or insightful said that would be great.

[tattooedmonk]

I agree and some people mistake ties to the temple as from the temple.....and as I've always said we've grown too big......now we will suffer for it

+1.

[tattooedmonk]

BQ, I accept that GMT may have given credit where credit is due... but it isn't making its way down the food chain. If one checks out the various SD websites, any mention of Cheng Man Ching or Jiang Rong Qiao is extremely rare, as originators of the SD taiji and classic bagua forms. I'd be willing to bet that most schools don't actually know the lineage of many of the internal or external forms. The Shaolin Do: Secrets from the Temple book tries to make direct links to the internal arts of taiji, xingyi, and bagua that are spurious at best. One of the previous posters had to correct a fellow SDer who claimed that the taiji forms were 'direct from the temple'... I'm still not sure after reading the post whether the 'correctee' (is that really a word?) was really convinced.

This isn't to say that SD isn't accurately documenting its lineage in its upper echelon, but the ignorance of many SD schools about the lineage certainly isn't helping.

I agree.

[tattooedmonk]

Been there, done that (traditional Longfist and some wushu). Said to myself, man, this isn't a good investment of money (done other CMA's and capoeira as long as I've been in SD), because I'm doing the exact same things, only with different emphasis, based on the structure of the system and style. I climbed at least four mountains, stood at the top, and said: "****, these mountains all look alike." So I picked the one that was most challenging to climb.

KFM'ers said: "Yeah, but you still suck b/c you like SD better." I still do capoeira in the summers, though.



I know the ones I went to all allowed you to wear what you wanted, and were run by little chinese guys who rented space out of karate and tae kwan do schools, because they had other jobs. None of them called themselves a sifu. But their kung-fu was better than the commercial schools whihc were fulltime "traditional" schools, equipped with altars, incense, and lion costumes. The question is, are you trying to be chinese, or are you studying a chinese martial art? No lion dances for me, LOL...........The schools that harped on lineages were the ones run by white and black american dudes (who usually had chinese wives....I'm not being presumptuous, I actually saw them) and did their best to be chinese. Note: you don't have to be chinese, a buddhist, or a taoist to do kung fu.....LOL.....BTW, I'm a white american atheist grad student doing kung fu.....LOL......a joke in itself....



And many I talk with on this issue generally don't really care. (that includes the other CMA's I studied ). Lineage is an internet thing. I've never heard it elswhere. It's usually posted in the school. Some people harp on it and try to impress you with it as soon as you walk in the door. But really, it's just a list of chinese dudes, most of whom are dead, and I don't really care about any of that.....LOL.....

Lineages don't make people better. My longfist teacher had impressive credentials, but his students weren't that great, and couldn't fight very well (compared to SD). What I want to do is challenge myself and learn to fight. I don't know about the system as a whole, but some of my teachers are very scary dudes when you touch hands. Not all.....but the good ones are. And it's always easy to tell the good ones apart.



It's not the best book, and it was obviously written by someone who really believes in the system as it is advertised (Like, the best ever, for sure!) It's just propaganda. I don't particularly like it.



I do know this, all lineage claims following from GM The' can be verified. They're all documented on SDA, SD, and CSC websites. I can follow my teacher's lineage back to GM The', and from GM The' jump back to the original lineage.

But really, from there, again, its just two more chinese dudes, one of whom was exceptionally hairy.

I can look at Senior Master Grooms and see where part of my teacher's knowledge comes from, just as I could look at some other SD guys from TEnnessee and Kentuck and say the exact same thing. And I can look at myself and see where all my teaching has come from, and not all of it is from the master of the school I attend. I give credit to fellow students and some of the "lower level" sifus for all I learned. I didn't learn anything from the hairy guy or GGpappy Ie. So I don't really care about that.

Seriously, leave your lineages at the door.

I wish more people had this outlook on the situation.

[tattooedmonk]

Thank you, see that's not so hard is it? Cast off the "savior" robes and let people practice and talk about their respective martial art in peace. Maybe now, we can move on to better topics.

This would be nice , would it not??

[brucereiter]

Yea I remember reading on one Sd school's website, they claimed to teach the original pakua from which all other pakua comes from. I learned Pakua from GMS and he never mentioned Jiang rong qiao as the forms originator. I also learned taichi 64 from him and again he never mentioned cheng man ching as the forms creator. These things I had to learn from my own research.

when i asked about the history of classical pakua i was told the following.

"The full name of our form is "Original Octagonal Palm of the Elusive Fist"
The form is the original set of two taught by Chiang Jung-Ch'iao
Chiang Jung-Ch'iao was one generation removed from the originator of Pa Kua - Dong Hai-Chuan.
His teacher was Chang Chao-Tung a direct student of Dong Hai-Chuan"

in class it is just refereed to at classical pakua. and most students do not ask for further information and they may assume it was developed at shaolin temple or what ever.

i wonder if anyone has read the preface to jiang rong qiao's hsing i book? as i mentioned several posts back he states that he traveled to shaolin temple and this was a book written in 1929 ...

best

bruce

[ricardocameron]

Hey guys,
Anyone got any good apps for combat with Tai Chi Technique? I have been learning a 24 posture Yang short form on my own (Terrance Dunn video as no SD teacher available yet)and now been fighting ghosts with it in my head, as I have no one else to play with for combat apps. Any ideas on using Ward off, Roll-back(a throw, i know), Parting the horse's mane, etc? I found this one video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_iwbCTvIVt8
Any recommendations would be great. Thanks

And... whats REALLY cool is I actually came up with(amazingly to me) some of what he shows in the vid too(like the opening form raise hands against a double shoulder grab) Whew!! Thanks Senior Master Gary, for saying to ask yourself "How can I make this hurt?"

[Litikuai]

Well all that is missing is some frekin rap music give me a break they were all drunk the guy was admiring him self in the mirror what a pot belly dont show that cra/ LTKuai

[brucereiter]

Hey guys,
Anyone got any good apps for combat with Tai Chi Technique? I have been learning a 24 posture Yang short form on my own (Terrance Dunn video as no SD teacher available yet)and now been fighting ghosts with it in my head, as I have no one else to play with for combat apps. Any ideas on using Ward off, Roll-back(a throw, i know), Parting the horse's mane, etc?

hi ...

here are some of my ideas on applying tai chi chuan.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lJgfVy5Cqe0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-1vA5Y3sT6o

best,

bruce

[brucereiter]

hi ya'all,

here are some drills and training i do. does anyone do anything similar? would anyone like to share a clip of some of their training?

some striking drills:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G_jajtX-2po

some stance training:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I2nZiDpg0og

some isometric stance training:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9IXaWXuSNhA

some grip training:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GcF1jMs6wTI

best,

bruce