Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[tattooedmonk]

# 1 Well it's been a fair number of years, but I don't recall anybody ever spending years working on any one piece of material from the complete systems SD has claimed. Bits & pieces, but only at best & only until the next form came up.

Let me ask you this... at 3rd black, SD learns a total of 8 Huas (4 singles & 2 partnered sets) .. AND... Tiger Crane from Hung Ga. How much time did you personally spend learning the proper techniques from the Soards as your teacher for Tiger Crane? How many years did you spend learning the bridging, stances, transitionings, drills, etc... to make sure it's done properly? Or with the Praying Mantis has laid a claim on? How many years did you spend working on the 7 Softs, 8 Hards & 12 Keywords?

Not picking... just asking.



#2 From the outside looking in yes, from the inside working, there's a lot more than meets the eye.



#3 Some styles work better than others for people... some people work better than others for some styles. Like my Psych professor used to say "It depends..."



#4 Yep



#5 k



#6 Well... that's too bad then if SD continues to make the claims that it has in the past & has done nothing to mitigate.



#7 At best maybe at worst maybe not



#8 K



#9 Really? All we (the board at large) keep hearing is how the Denver or Atlanta vids shouldn't be indicative of how SD is to be performed, especially from you. Yet... there's been nothing presented on how it should look... from anybody of any time & rank within SD. The arguement "it doesn't matter to me..." doesn't apply here since you've been one of the more vocal proponents of "Proper SD isn't like that"



# 10 Sure it does. And there are plenty of TCMA vids on you tube for discussion/dissection. Hell... given the number of vids, there may already be posters on the board there.



#11 Well that has yet to be seen. What has been seen is people bringing TCMA knowledge and experience to the net for anybody to absorb that's willing and instead is being met with literally with the "Nah... we got it right" arguement.

#12 Nobody's ever said SD didn't produce people who couldn't fight. What's the jist of the conversations/arguments is SD isn't TCMA & people who study SD haven't studied TCMA while the marketing beast fro SD has perpetuated a cloud of dishonesty and questions regarding its origins and skill sets.



#13 If doing it right the first time is snobbery, so be it. Ask JP though... I still fall over in bars after downing a 1/5 of SoCo just like he does...



#14 Well, I'll tell you in person if you'd like...

#1 Things are little different now. When I learned that material I was taking them at festivals/seminars . I would learn them. then leave for a few months , comeback ask questions, and then leave again to work on them. I did this for years. Out west they did not/do not teach the Hua 2 man sets.

#2 I understand from the outside they are and that internally they are different.

#3 I agree.

#4

#5

#6 I agree

#7 I agree

#8

#9 Well when all the people that are critics of Sd put themselves up I will do the same.

#10 Who and Where ??


#11 It has been seen all over this board. But yet not one of these comparison videos have been from the critics themselves.

#12 Well is that not all that matters then?? All this other stuff, to me, is non- intrinsic , unless it compromises the art. I get what you are saying.

#13 Not what I was talking about. What I was saying is that all the people that knock SD have yet to produce any of their own videos, are looking down their noses's at what we do and saying it is this or is not that............It is easy to do this from behind a computer and using other people's videos/ demonstrations.

#14 I am always open to hearing constructive criticism and learning from others. I am an eternal student as well.

I like talking with you . You seem to be a knowledgable martial artist and a pretty good guy. Thanks.

[brucereiter]

thenwhynotusespaceswhenhetypes?He'scertainlycapabl easheusesspaceseffectivelyinhisforumposts.Seemsodd tomeisall.

hi m.k.,

here is one thing i find odd. people ask often online about shaolin do, many people say many different things with only seeing this or that clip so i choose to share my expression with who ever may be interested. i am only one person in a large organization and wish to only speak for myself and my own martial understanding.

i post links to my shaolin do practice here so that all of you can comment and all m.k. can say is that i did not put spaces between any of the titles ... so he thinks i must be hiding something.

what do you think about the content of the clips?
am i expressing any concepts of tcma?
what do you think is bad in the clips?
what do you think is good in the clips?



best,

bruce

[MasterKiller]

hi m.k.,

here is one thing i find odd. people ask often online about shaolin do, many people say many different things with only seeing this or that clip so i choose to share my expression with who ever may be interested. i am only one person in a large organization and wish to only speak for myself and my own martial understanding.

i post links to my shaolin do practice here so that all of you can comment and all m.k. can say is that i did not put spaces between any of the titles ... so he thinks i must be hiding something.

what do you think about the content of the clips?
am i expressing any concepts of tcma?
what do you think is bad in the clips?
what do you think is good in the clips?



best,

bruce

I was just curious about the no spaces, bro. I don't study Tai Chi, Xing Yi, or Bagua, so I am not qualified to judge your clips, which is why I never said anything about them. You put some long fist clips up and I'll chime in.

[brucereiter]

I was just curious about the no spaces, bro. I don't study Tai Chi, Xing Yi, or Bagua, so I am not qualified to judge your clips, which is why I never said anything about them. You put some long fist clips up and I'll chime in.

i can appreciate you not practicing ima and not wanting to comment on ima.

i have read your posts and other peoples posts in the past that imply all sd is "kempo" like or "karate" like or is not "tcma" etc etc ... how would you describe what i have shown?

i have put out there some of what i have learned from shaolin do, i do not practice "external" so i cant put up any clip of me doing long fist.

[bodhi warrior]

Hey bruce, I have both jiang rong qiao xing yi translations by crandell, which one and which page is the reference to shaolin?

[bodhi warrior]

I was reading alittle of the history of this form in Doc fai wongs book. It states that zhue yuen, li sou, and bai yu feng founded the 128 posture form and took it back to shaolin temple. Now wouldn't stand to reason that more that one lineage would have this form? I mean more than one person learned it at the temple, so it could have spread to other areas by different monks.

[Judge Pen]

I was reading alittle of the history of this form in Doc fai wongs book. It states that zhue yuen, li sou, and bai yu feng founded the 128 posture form and took it back to shaolin temple. Now wouldn't stand to reason that more that one lineage would have this form? I mean more than one person learned it at the temple, so it could have spread to other areas by different monks.

Which was my point a few pages ago, but I understand that most people will assume the GM The' stole that form from a book or by paying someone to teach it to him. Whatever...all I said was it was posible that that form is taught in other lineages besides DFW.

[MasterKiller]

i have read your posts and other peoples posts in the past that imply all sd is "kempo" like or "karate" like or is not "tcma" etc etc ... how would you describe what i have shown?

Your Tai Chi looks like Tai Chi to me. But I am uniformed, so my opinion on it really doesn't mean anything.

What I've said in the past is that SD doesn't flow like CMA. I'll revise that. The Northen sets I've seen do not flow like Northern sets should.

Here is an example of what I mean.

This guy is NOT an SD player, but his form is performed much like I have seen SD folks peform in online videos (and at AAU Nationals in Dallas):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=f48lAjfJLek

Too much hard power and snap for a long fist form, and not enough continuous flow.

This is a much better example of the same form:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h7_syGd3S0o

SD Northern forms have all the right movements (for the most part). No doubt about that. But The Northern "flavor" just isn't there in the stuff I've seen. SD Northern sets are performed just like SD Southern sets. Long Fist sets are supposed to exhibit relaxed power, not hard jing.

[Judge Pen]

Your Tai Chi looks like Tai Chi to me. But I am uniformed, so my opinion on it really doesn't mean anything.

What I've said in the past is that SD doesn't flow like CMA. I'll revise that. The Northen sets I've seen do not flow like Northern sets should.

Here is an example of what I mean.

This guy is NOT an SD player, but his form is performed much like I have seen SD folks peform in online videos (and at AAU Nationals in Dallas):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=f48lAjfJLek

Too much power and snap for a long fist form, and not enough continuous flow.

This is a much better example of the same form:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h7_syGd3S0o

SD Northern forms have all the right movements (for the most part). No doubt about that. But The Northern "flavor" just isn't there in the stuff I've seen. SD Northern sets are performed just like SD Southern sets. Long Fist sets are supposed to exhibit relaxed power, not hard jing.

So the first guy was NOT a good example of proper Northern flow and dynamic (in your opinion)? Then I guess your 100% correct, bucause I preferred his version of the form.

[MasterKiller]

So the first guy was NOT a good example of proper Northern flow and dynamic (in your opinion)? Then I guess your 100% correct, bucause I preferred his version of the form.

Correct. That is not how Northern sets should be performed. That guy is certainly talented, but that isn't Northern movement or striking.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Isn't baji a Nothern System ? Same like Chen Taiji ?
There sets have Jing coming out of every orifice !

[sean_stonehart]

Isn't baji a Nothern System ? Same like Chen Taiji ?
There sets have Jing coming out of every orifice !

Yeah but baji isn't a Northern longfist. It's more akin to xingyi than chang quan.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ah, long fist, gottcha.

[arinathos.valin]

If I'm not mistaken, Wen Ching Wu, the performer of the first clip, is one of the senior students of Yang Jwing-Ming and Liang Shou-Yu, both of whom have very good credentials in the internal and external Chinese arts.

If the majority of SD people could perform like Wen Ching Wu, I would have no complaints whatsoever about the quality of instruction...

[MasterKiller]

If I'm not mistaken, Wen Ching Wu, the performer of the first clip, is one of the senior students of Yang Jwing-Ming and Liang Shou-Yu, both of whom have very good credentials in the internal and external Chinese arts.

If the majority of SD people could perform like Wen Ching Wu, I would have no complaints whatsoever about the quality of instruction...

Yang doesn't move like that. Most of his students don't move like that. It seems Wen has developed his own personal flavor, which is fine, but it's not indicative or representive of typical long fist training or movement.