Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yang doesn't move like that. Most of his students don't move like that. It seems Wen has developed his own personal flavor, which is fine, but it's not indicative or representive of typical long fist training or movement.

My Yang moves like that, sleek and powerful baby !

[GLW]

One thing you need to realize is the Wen Ching's first main teacher was Yang Jwingming.

Yang's FIRST style is Fukien White Crane - short power, lots of waist jing, etc...

Yang DID perform his long fist sets with much of that flavor back in the day. Such hard jing gets to be more refined and less obvious as you get older...or is it that you simply don't do it as much due to aging...who knows...except that those that I have known that did it when young STILL hit like a tone of whipping bricks when they are older...but it is not so obvious.

Anyway, Yang's Long Fist IS influenced by his White Crane. His sons - at least the last time I saw them, did similar methods. His daughter does not -but that is probably more of a man/woman flavoring...

So... Wen Ching's long fist has a White Crane influence. Now, after years of study with Laing Shouyu and another teacher, his northern has a softer flavor. go figure.

[MasterKiller]

OK, but again typical Northern LF sets should not move like Fukien sets.

Yang's Southern Crane may influence his movement and how he teaches, but that is not the same thing as saying Northern sets should move like Southern sets.

[tattooedmonk]

So the first guy was NOT a good example of proper Northern flow and dynamic (in your opinion)? Then I guess your 100% correct, bucause I preferred his version of the form.

So did I.

I can see the guy in the second video having trouble transfering his skill to fighting more than the first.I wonder if it ever occured to anyone that maybe the way they practice it and know it to be right, is acutually wrong.

I see it as being different . Anyone at anytime can put whatever emphasis into any formwhether it be northern, southern ,or internal, external, etc.. It is how they like to perform it and what purpose they have in doing it that way.

But to say it is right or wrong is just , well , stupid.

[tattooedmonk]

OK, but again typical Northern LF sets should not move like Fukien sets.

Yang's Southern Crane may influence his movement and how he teaches, but that is not the same thing as saying Northern sets should move like Southern sets.

why not???

[tattooedmonk]

If I'm not mistaken, Wen Ching Wu, the performer of the first clip, is one of the senior students of Yang Jwing-Ming and Liang Shou-Yu, both of whom have very good credentials in the internal and external Chinese arts.

If the majority of SD people could perform like Wen Ching Wu, I would have no complaints whatsoever about the quality of instruction...

I would say a fair amount do.

[tattooedmonk]

Which was my point a few pages ago, but I understand that most people will assume the GM The' stole that form from a book or by paying someone to teach it to him. Whatever...all I said was it was posible that that form is taught in other lineages besides DFW.

I believe it states in the book that it is a very well known and popular set. or something to that effect. As well as it not being a CLF set either but that it was absorbed into the system.( I own the book but do not have it in front of me.)

[MasterKiller]

I can see the guy in the second video having trouble transfering his skill to fighting more than the first.I wonder if it ever occured to anyone that maybe the way they practice it and know it to be right, is acutually wrong.

Trained fighters don't fight herky-jerky with all that snap.

Look at boxers...they flow from one punch to the next. That is how Long Fist is supposed to look. Smooth, relaxed, and flexible...

why not???

Because you have a Southern-trained guy doing Northern sets just like he does his Southern sets. Since Southern sets typically try to generate Short Power and Long Fist focuses on generating Long Power, you have a disconnect in the training purpose of the form.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Trained fighters don't fight herky-jerky with all that snap.

Look at boxers...they flow from one punch to the next. That is how Long Fist is supposed to look. Smooth, relaxed, and flexible...

You are a bad man.

[tattooedmonk]

Trained fighters don't fight herky-jerky with all that snap.

Look at boxers...they flow from one punch to the next. That is how Long Fist is supposed to look. Smooth, relaxed, and flexible...

Because you have a Southern-trained guy doing Northern sets just like he does his Southern sets. Since Southern sets typically try to generate Short Power and Long Fist focuses on generating Long Power, you have a disconnect in the training purpose of the form.

Herk-jerky?? This is his way to show the transfer of energy. How it would be used in a fight is different ,just like you know, forms are different than fighting.

There are different ways to do forms.

I would say that the reason why you see some people do it one way and someone another is because of their teacher, or personal styles, or emphasis, or any other reason.

To say that you only play a certain forms a certain way or else it is wrong is just ridiculous.

[MasterKiller]

Herk-jerky?? This is his way to show the transfer of energy.

Not with Long Fist....

There are different ways to do forms.

I would say that the reason why you see some people do it one way and someone another is because of their teacher, or personal styles, or emphasis, or any other reason.

To say that you only play a certain forms a certain way or else it is wrong is just ridiculous.

I agree to a certain extent, but violating the general principles of the style would generally be considered incorrect.

You wouldn't do Sam Chien like Hua Chuan, would you?

Conversely, you shouldn't do Long Fist like Fukien White Crane....

[sean_stonehart]

Not with Long Fist....
I agree to a certain extent, but violating the general principles of the style would generally be considered incorrect.

You wouldn't do Sam Chien like Hua Chuan, would you?

Conversely, you shouldn't do Long Fist like Fukien White Crane....

Not once but THREE times in one reply he speaks the true & simple... no muss, no fuss... somethings you just don't do.

You don't mix... chili & noodles & call it "Cinncinati Style Chili" ...
You don't mix... bbq sauce & beef & call it "Texas BBQ" ...
You don't mix... Boones Farm & Hi-C * call it "sangria" ...

You don't mix... Northern sets with Southern power generation

[tattooedmonk]

You don't mix... Northern sets with Southern power generation

where is it written??

[MasterKiller]

where is it written??

Like I said, Long Fist forms are designed to train Long Power...Southern forms are mostly designed to train Short Power. If you do Long Fist sets while trying to show Southern Short Power, you are violating the intent and purpose of the forms. Long Fist forms are generally not designed to use a lot short power, which is why they have large, exaggerated, flowing movements. You can't properly generate Short Power with Long Fist movements, so why bother trying?

[Lamassu]

Like I said, Long Fist forms are designed to train Long Power...Southern forms are mostly designed to train Short Power. If you do Long Fist sets while trying to show Southern Short Power, you are violating the intent and purpose of the forms. Long Fist forms are generally not designed to use a lot short power, which is why they have large, exaggerated, flowing movements. You can't properly generate Short Power with Long Fist movements, so why bother trying?

I agree with you whole heartedly on this one. To mix-mash long power with Southern forms and vice versa, stunts the full potential of power in that given technique. Short power used in a long fist technique cuts off the force by shortening the distance of the strike to the target. Just like using long power in a Southern form, like white crane, leaves you open to a counterstrike.

I also agree that SDer's excecute their forms more often than not with "short" power, thus giving that "kenpo" look. Being a 1st Black Belt, most of the forms I know are from the Southern provinces and so I tend to train with that mindset. It would indeed take a Master to know the difference and train as such, keeping the excecution of the forms he knows, both North and South, separate.

BTW, my father in law promised us a digital camera for a wedding present; as soon as it arrives in the mail, I'll film myself doing some SD kung fu forms and post them here.