Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

The guy does teach karate, cardio-kickboxing, jiujitsu, krav maga and whatever the flavor of the month is. He teaches here in Knoxville.

My understanding of the lawsuit is that it was settled and the terms were confidential. I've looked for public documents, but haven't found any.

[Judge Pen]

This is not accurate. Possibly the use became more common or became associated with other styles or principles, but neither the concept nor the term is 'modern.'

Just because your teacher never used the term does not mean it did not exist.

Right. People use all kinds of terms. Not using certain ones is not an indicator of lack of knowledge or skill.

You are correct. Many of the traditional terms are not taught in SD, but I believe the traditional principles are taught (to a varying degree depending on the quality of instruction).

[Judge Pen]

Can somebody explain to me how something that sounds like a civil case would have jail time associated with it?

I swear the SD world seems more and more removed from reality...

It wouldn't. I don't know where that idea came from.

[Judge Pen]

[QUOTE=Mas Judt;790360]

Where's Judge Pen? He could Lexis/Nexis this puppy and help his breatheren get the scoop...

[QUOTE]

I looked a while ago, and could find no reference. I'll look again. As I've said, it was my understanding that the case was voluntarily dismissed which usually means some compromise was reached. It could mean other things too, but there doesn't appear to be any documentation to allow us to do anything more than rely upon the word of others and to speculate (things that we do best on an internet forum).

[MasterKiller]

It wouldn't. I don't know where that idea came from.

Wookie is the source of the info, stating it came from a Sin The' lecture.

I had some money to kill, and I was a bit curious as to its contents, but I picked up that lecture GM Sin gave to the Austin school in 2003 off the SDA website a couple of weeks ago.

GM Sin said it in this lecture (as well as being pretty honest about the obtainment and eventual failure of teh complex---and his reaction to it. He was really honest in the lecture with his reaction to it, and his emotions--which showed a lot of character). People got their hands on much more material.

But he also mentions a black belt in some SW US state (I forget which) who began teaching SD without the approval of GM Sin or SD, under a different name. There was a lawsuit, b/c GM Sin felt betrayed that this guy could go and hand out belts to his students with SD's material, without having been approved by GM Sin. (Just like I wouldn't teach literature without a degree, or a teacher's certificate). So I can understand. He eventually worked something out with the ex-student on the side once he had effectively won the case (initially, he was going to lose, but then cited "trade secrets" as a legal infraction, and sealed the case), and settled it without legal repercussions (jailtime on the defendant's part). This led to the standardization of what SD and CSC teach from brown-belt on down, and led to a copyright on the material by GM Sin, so nobody else would feel empowered to teach without his approval.

[Baqualin]

Always wondered the year the term SD was Coined. Lets see the kung fu craze was from 1971 thru 1975 or 6. then kick boxing came along PKA in 1977 as my first fight with them was 1978 so the use of the word Shaolin had little or no meaning in rural KY at that time , the series Kung fu ended in 1975 and was not heard from again until 1986 with Kung fu the Movie with Brandon Lee . So much for marketing strategy why didnt he call it chinese Kick Boxing or something like that it was popular at that time ?? It would make more sense , what do you guys think ? KC

Hey KC,
Sorry I didn't have more time to hang out Saturday...maybe next time your in

For the record...I started SD in 74 and it was called Shaolin Do at that time.
BQ

[BM2]

I had an old instructor's certificate that spelled it somthing like Shaid Liem Do. I had started in '81 and my shoulder patch has it Shao-Lin Do. I think that spelling was changed to Shaolin-Do in the '90s.

[Mas Judt]

By far the most entertaining thing I find is what I'll call the SD 'telephone game.'

Something like this lawsuit comes up - wild stories are told as 'official word' until someone more sane comes along and gives a much more rational POV (usually Judge Pen, who really should be official SD spokesperson as he seems like a nice guy, is smart and can parse between foolishness and reality).

[Judge Pen]

I had an old instructor's certificate that spelled it somthing like Shaid Liem Do. I had started in '81 and my shoulder patch has it Shao-Lin Do. I think that spelling was changed to Shaolin-Do in the '90s.

It was called and spelled Shao-lin Do in 1989 when I started.

As far as jail time, the only way that can happen in a civil case is if one is held in contempt of Court or a Court Order. If there was a Temporary Restraining Order on BV teaching SD's material, then he could be held in contempt if he broke the Order in its pendancy, but otherwise, incarceration is not a penatly in civil matters. Who knows what all went down in that lawsuit? If one could learn the name of the legal counsel that represented the parties, they may have some non-confidential information that they could share.

[Baqualin]

It was called and spelled Shao-lin Do in 1989 when I started.

As far as jail time, the only way that can happen in a civil case is if one is held in contempt of Court or a Court Order. If there was a Temporary Restraining Order on BV teaching SD's material, then he could be held in contempt if he broke the Order in its pendancy, but otherwise, incarceration is not a penatly in civil matters. Who knows what all went down in that lawsuit? If one could learn the name of the legal counsel that represented the parties, they may have some non-confidential information that they could share.

Your teachers probally know more about this than anyone on here that's posting about it....why this has been drug up makes no sense other than gossip, has nothing to do with anything else....he was a bad seed ( more than just teaching SD material).....he's gone and it's over

The above statement is not directed towards you JP...I just know what your teachers know ....FYI
BQ

[Judge Pen]

Your teachers probally know more about this than anyone on here that's posting about it....why this has been drug up makes no sense other than gossip, has nothing to do with anything else....he was a bad seed ( more than just teaching SD material).....he's gone and it's over

The above statement is not directed towards you JP...I just know what your teachers know ....FYI
BQ

Which is why I'm not repeating what I've heard from my teachers. I'm interested in the finer legal points and I'm trying to go on what is available as public record. And, as far as I can tell, there are none. So everything else is just hearsay and speculation.

[Mas Judt]

Baqualin, see my post about JP above. The man rises above it.

[Baqualin]

Which is why I'm not repeating what I've heard from my teachers. I'm interested in the finer legal points and I'm trying to go on what is available as public record. And, as far as I can tell, there are none. So everything else is just hearsay and speculation.

Exactly....I totally understand your interest as a lawyer
BQ

[Baqualin]

Baqualin, see my post about JP above. The man rises above it.

I saw it & I totally agree with you......did I say thatI did
BQ

[Litikuai]

I have read alot of the 400 and more pages and I think kwai chang is saying the art of SD is or was developed prior to it being benificial to call a karate style Shaolin anything and I agree so those who feel the SD market thing is for money that doesnt make sense LTK