Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[brucereiter]

It's hard for me to believe someone will ever be able to learn those styles properly.

i dont think any person can learn everything this system has to offer and be an expert in all facets of it ...

[Toby]

... i have chosen to focus the majority of my training time to yang tai chi chuan ...

...

... i for sure could just learn yang tai chi chuan and not expose myself to other things but i think it has been to my benefit to be exposed to several things ...

...

am very interested in ima . i am part of the "internal program" and have never studied the external side of shaolin do. so i do not have a "rest" of the curriculum to drop ... as far as leaving my school i really do love where i am at so i do not think that is going to happen.

Fair enough. I guess I just wonder how one school can teach a specialised internal program + all the other stuff. Like are there several teachers, each specialising in something different? And then if one day you teach yourself, how can you be a SD teacher when you haven't done a whole bunch of the official program? Or would you not call yourself a SD teacher?

the "foot" thing i guess is how i interpreted what i was taught, i really do not have a great reason for doing that ... although i have seen other systems use that approach.
as i practice i will have to look at how my weight shifts and see what i come up with.

Well, I can see an application in plucking the front foot of an opponent, but not in that place in beng, right before stepping and striking. I can say that you could do this "absorbing step" without backwards intent, but it's not easy and requires a fair amount of work/practice. On the plus side it would be good practice i.e. it would reinforce some particularly good habits and structure (I can't do it as often as I'd like but when I do it certainly feels right and powerful and dangerous - like I'm a D11).

elaborate on the "corners"

Didn't I say "all I'll say is ..." . The body is loaded like a compound bow. Nothing straight, everything's a curve. Curves in the arms, legs, back, shoulders. Curves in many directions. Curves are structurally stronger.

regarding "pure internal school" i travel at least 6 months per year for many years now for my work ... i have and will continue to visit any ima school that will welcome me. i have been exposed to some of the best and to lots of crap ranging from "name" lineage holders to old dudes in that park and everywhere in between ... this experience of exchanging with so many people has really affirmed and made me value what i have right here as well as brought up lots of questions about some of what i have.

I'm surprised that people give out stuff like that. E.g. at my school it usually takes a while to show you are ready before you are given stuff. OTOH if you are ready nothing's held back. But it'd be highly unusual for someone just to come in for the first time and get advanced material.

You kind of intrigue me. I'm kinda surprised that you're with SD since you don't seem like the typical SD student. The typical SD student (no offence atypical students) in my mind will always be themeecer . That was a blast from the past when his name was recently dug up. I'm surprised that you don't seek out a school that specialises in what you're interested in. Maybe there are none around, or maybe it's just inertia, or maybe you just like your school. Whatever, good luck on your journey. I'll continue to enjoy any videos you decide to present.

[brucereiter]

Fair enough. I guess I just wonder how one school can teach a specialised internal program + all the other stuff. Like are there several teachers, each specialising in something different? And then if one day you teach yourself, how can you be a SD teacher when you haven't done a whole bunch of the official program? Or would you not call yourself a SD teacher?

there are several teachers all with their own strength and weakness at the atlanta schools ...
i am "certified" by sr master grooms to teach the internal program. the certs last for 2 years and then are reissued or not ... when my teacher decides i am ready i will be told to teach more.

i mainly teach tai chi chuan/push hands/usage.

I'm surprised that people give out stuff like that. E.g. at my school it usually takes a while to show you are ready before you are given stuff. OTOH if you are ready nothing's held back. But it'd be highly unusual for someone just to come in for the first time and get advanced material.

i think i am one of very few students who go to level one class still (although many times i am now teaching it) all student have this chance but for example after the 6 months spent learning the basics of yang tai chi chuan and related chi kung and a intro to push hands and applying the art very few people ever come back to refine and learn more. that is their own problem not mine as it is offered to everyone ...
i wish more students would dig in. and not just collect forms but it is their choice.

You kind of intrigue me. I'm kinda surprised that you're with SD since you don't seem like the typical SD student. The typical SD student (no offence atypical students) in my mind will always be themeecer . That was a blast from the past when his name was recently dug up. I'm surprised that you don't seek out a school that specialises in what you're interested in. Maybe there are none around, or maybe it's just inertia, or maybe you just like your school. Whatever, good luck on your journey. I'll continue to enjoy any videos you decide to present.

thanks:-)

i do like my school and my teachers all of them have different things to offer.
when i first started looking for a school i was looking for tai chi chuan, i had never heard of pakua or hsing i etc all i knew is tai chi was some type of kung fu where you use your structure instead of strenght and it seemed like something that could be practiced into old age ... every school i visited here in atlanta that taught tai chi chuan did not spar/fight and only did a few push hands drills as far as i could see. since i have started my training i have met a few fantastic tai chi chuan people here in atlanta. who i think can apply the martial art tai chi chuan.

each sunday since 1999 (when i am not traveling) i meet a open group (2-10 people on average)where any one is welcome and we do push hands and spar etc ... through this i was able to meet and touch many people from many styles ... and i learned a lot about what my teachers have taught me and how to apply it on people who practice other things.

thanks again for taking the time to post here ...

best,

bruce

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, I understand that. I just don't get how my plate is overflowing with 2 styles how you guys can consider yourselves to know so many different styles well enough to get to a level where you understand them properly. That's a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer. I know it's been addressed before i.e. you choose to specialise in certain styles once you reach a certain level. I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of material in the system. I mean, it's like it's swallowed up whole styles as stepping stones in the curriculum, arts that other people study individually for a lifetime. It's hard for me to believe someone will ever be able to learn those styles properly.

Simple answer: we can't--at least not at first. Eventually, if we are to "master" a specific style that we are taught, I believe that we must make the personal choice to stop and really focus on that material--the same as you. Now this begs all kinds of other questions about how to do that, but I think it can be done by those with the intent and the will, but all too often students in SD are just happy to keep learning the new material available and not stop and focus on what really fits them personally. The exceptions are those that many in SD respect for their mastery of a certain area. Like Master Smith, Master Green, Master Leonard, Master Mullins etc. In fact, I've been told that many of the Elder masters in SD have privately narrowed their focus into a specific area and many of them have sought as much knowledge as they could from inside and outside of the system to help their understanding and to get a full perspective on what they have been taught. SDIC is another example of a non-Master who is training in a specific area and focusing on that area. He is an exception among most of the SD students out there, though.

[Mas Judt]

I guess the question is - if you can't 'learn it all' and have to focus... how do you become a teacher who offers to 'teach it all' - how can you trust your teachers to know 'all of it' so you CAN focus on the parts you want?

It all seems just silly to me. Like the Green Dragon guys in Ohio offering a million forms on tape, yet most of them are just so devoid of the stylistic trademarks of each system that they are almost unrecognizable.

[Judge Pen]

I guess the question is - if you can't 'learn it all' and have to focus... how do you become a teacher who offers to 'teach it all' - how can you trust your teachers to know 'all of it' so you CAN focus on the parts you want?

It all seems just silly to me. Like the Green Dragon guys in Ohio offering a million forms on tape, yet most of them are just so devoid of the stylistic trademarks of each system that they are almost unrecognizable.

If you have a good teacher that has taken the time to focus on the areas that he is teaching, then you can trust their teaching in those areas. If not, then you get bad examples of forms on the internet. Regardless, eventually, its up to the individual to police themselves and make themselves better regardless of the instruction.

There are teachers out there that have attained a high level of profficeincy in the diverse areas and are excellent "all around" SD teachers--who take the time to teach the underlying training methods for each form, who don't push their students to learn too much too fast and who stress the principles of each style and not just another set of postures and stances. And there are others that don't. But that teacher will not be as good at any one particular style as a person who has trained for the same amount of time in that one style exclusively.

Even in the example of the SD teacher who is good at everything all the way around, the material does bleed over and look similar. The flavor can be lost and muddled--which is why many masters go back and focus on particular areas that interested them more than others.

A typical SD student is not unlike the student that cross-trains for years in different styles and reaches intermediate levels in each of them, but never masters any of them. That person can be a helluva martial artist and fighter, and speak intelligently about many different areas of kung fu and even be a decent teacher of the bit of mantis, tai chi, CLF etc. (for example) that he did learn, but he will not be as good as he could be if he stayed in the one area (say mantis) for life.

I'm sure we can cite examples of many well-respected masters that trained in a couple of other areas prior to settling into the art that they are most known for. I would wager that they are still proficient and could still teach the arts that they studied before finding their true calling--just not as well as those that stayed in that art.

[bodhi warrior]

What ever happened to EM Eric Smith? He is one of the most respected masters in SD and he seems to have fallen off the face of the planet. Does anyone know what he's up to, or why he moved, etc. Just curious, as he was one of my fav masters in the system.

[Baqualin]

What ever happened to EM Eric Smith? He is one of the most respected masters in SD and he seems to have fallen off the face of the planet. Does anyone know what he's up to, or why he moved, etc. Just curious, as he was one of my fav masters in the system.

He's settled in Mich. now, his work took him there....he will be in this weekend for the seminar and is still big buddies with EML....he mainly teaches privately...will push hands with you anywhere anytime
BQ

[Shaolin Wookie]

Sup guys....check this out:



http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=12674896

Anyone recognize these forms or their origin? The ones the kids are doing (poorly) begin and have traits veeeery similar to our 3 birds. The second form begins just like 2nd bird (basically, anyways) and has some similar traits. I'm not talking brother/sister, so much as cousins here in relations. But it's hard not to see the similarities. Can anyone read the intro's language, or pinpoint origin and influence?


Disregard the karate gi's. That has to be a coincidence....LOL.....

Vietnamese?

Edit: it's the sections with the middle aged students and the teenage ones, halfway through vid.

Watched it a couple of times now....there has to be some kind of connection.....but the only word I can understand from the intro is "Shaolin"....LOL........

I'd ask this kid who posted it, but I set up my myspace page like 2 years ago at my girlfriend's request, then never used it again......so I don't even know how to login....hahaha.....

[sean_stonehart]

It's Vietnamese.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Don't suppose you've got a ken of Vietnamese, d'ya?

[Judge Pen]

Sup guys....check this out:



http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=12674896

I'll check it out later (we're Myspace banned at work).

[sean_stonehart]

Don't suppose you've got a ken of Vietnamese, d'ya?

Nope... except on how to order Pho.

[Leto]

Sup guys....check this out:



http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=12674896

Anyone recognize these forms or their origin? The ones the kids are doing (poorly) begin and have traits veeeery similar to our 3 birds. The second form begins just like 2nd bird (basically, anyways) and has some similar traits. I'm not talking brother/sister, so much as cousins here in relations. But it's hard not to see the similarities. Can anyone read the intro's language, or pinpoint origin and influence?
.

Google, my friend. Thieu Lam, That Son, Bieu Dien, Vo Thuat

Thieu Lam is the Vietnamese way of saying shaolin. "That Son" is the name of a mountain range in Vietnam. Bieu Dien seem to mean presentation or peformance...demonstation(online dictionary).
Vo Thuat is a generic term for martial arts in Vietnamese.

So the style would be Thieu Lam style from That Son mountains. There seems to be Vietnamese schools of various southern Chinese styles all which use Thieu Lam in their name (just from looking at the signs at the beginning of the video we can se that, there is a Hong Quyen and Ving xuan quyen. )
Here's one example http://www.vietanhmon.org/inglese_file/thieulam.htm

I do see the similarity to the bird forms in there, and it confirms my belief those forms are from or related to a southern "long fist" style. Or who knows...maybe GM Ie or Gm The got them from a Vietnamese shaolin school?

[bodhi warrior]

My understanding is that the bird forms were created by GMS. Not the cranes but the birds at brown belt level.