Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Citong Shifu]

i am not sure about the sin the seminars ... i think jp has that right. i have never gotten much out of seminars as a matter of fact of the 3 i have done i cant even get threw the forms let alone say i have any skill with them. i am a slow learner lol.

if you are interested i am sure my teacher would be happy to meet and exchange with you ... if you are ever in st pete fl ...

let me know i will introduce you.

best,

bruce

Cool! I'll let you know if or when I get down that way.

Ron.

[brucereiter]

Here's the link to the main SD site and the certificate:

http://www.sinthe.com/images/2004/GMcertificate.jpg

Here's what it says:

Graduate Certificate

Mr. Zheng Zhong-Guang, age 20, a native of FuQing County, Fujian Province, has continuously studied and completed martial arts studies and practices for 10 years, covering 3 courses at Zhong Yuan Shaolin Martial Arts School. These courses are:
• From 1954 to 1955, the Class of Basics (Given Level-One Black Belt) [Dan 1]
• From 1956 to 1958, the Class of Middle Rank (Given Level-Two Black Belt) [Dan 2]
• From 1959 to 1963, the Class of Ace (Given Level-Five Black Belt) [Dan 5]

When verified, this certificate provides that the said student has passed all exams, and is graduated. During the past ten years, he also minored in: 1) JinSheQuan (Golden Snake Boxing); 2) QuanFengTui (Cyclone Kick); 3) TieZhiGong (Iron Finger Gongfu). These 3 courses are esoteric martial arts, and he excels in all. He also followed school rules and participated in all series of open competitions at school for distinction of excellence, and won all the top titles, and is honored with the Medal of Wu Tao (Medal of Martial Art and Tao). This Certificate serves as proof of all above merits.

Zhong Yuan Shaolin Martial Arts School (Seal)
Yu Chang-Ming (Seal) – Master of Iron Palm
Founder and Principal

Given on this fifteenth day of January, nineteen hundred sixty-four

Have Fun!

since you put that up ... here is a more clear copy and translation.



http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...ankcert-05.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...er/diploma.jpg

[sean_stonehart]

i think people like jp and myself and a few others are trying to do just that. why some higher ups do not i dont know.

I know Bruce. You & JP the others with level heads enough are to be commended. However, the ones that "count" have chosen to remain silent or draw an unnecssary & possibly misleading "veil of secrecy" around questions that if answered would bleed off questioning.

Remember... You & JP are (I was) all "entry level mgmt" there.

now that would be cool ... then you could buy a stele to honor al gore for inventing the internet and place it at shoalin temple lol ... that would be cool :-)

Screw AlG. I'd buy one for me commemorating me winning!!!!!!

also here is another tablet:

Yeah that's the one in Chen Village I think.

and in reference to the japan questions a few post back why are look at the weapons rack and figure out the weapon many have used on this thread to say sd in japanese karate, what is a sai doing at the shaolin temple :-)

Yep... they're sai, although in Southern China known as (among other names) Iron Rulers. They're found in Ngo Cho Kuen, Fujianese Crane (some of them), etc... not a big shocker to see since they're in Fujian.

[Judge Pen]

LOL! . Its not that big of a deal. I was just curious. I thought it would be interesting to see what if any differences between my shaolin styles compared to SD style... Not meaning actual style, but posture, principles of execution, etc... Maybe some of you peeps can get with me. I live in So. Illinois, Tennessee is not that far away, maybe something can be arranged. Of course, if I head in that direction I'll have to stop by Jim's pong lai mantis school as well, lol... If not, I may get a nasty email, lol....

Anywho, talk at you guys later.

Jim's a class act. I've trained with them and crossed hands with one of his students. Good stuff all the way around. Let me know if and when you're down. Nashville's only a couple of hours away.

[kwaichang]

What you talking about willis, I mean Sean ???? KC

[Toby]

Here's the link to the main SD site and the certificate:

http://www.sinthe.com/images/2004/GMcertificate.jpg

Here's what it says:

Graduate Certificate

Mr. Zheng Zhong-Guang, age 20, a native of FuQing County, Fujian Province, has continuously studied and completed martial arts studies and practices for 10 years, covering 3 courses at Zhong Yuan Shaolin Martial Arts School. These courses are:
• From 1954 to 1955, the Class of Basics (Given Level-One Black Belt) [Dan 1]
• From 1956 to 1958, the Class of Middle Rank (Given Level-Two Black Belt) [Dan 2]
• From 1959 to 1963, the Class of Ace (Given Level-Five Black Belt) [Dan 5]

When verified, this certificate provides that the said student has passed all exams, and is graduated. During the past ten years, he also minored in: 1) JinSheQuan (Golden Snake Boxing); 2) QuanFengTui (Cyclone Kick); 3) TieZhiGong (Iron Finger Gongfu). These 3 courses are esoteric martial arts, and he excels in all. He also followed school rules and participated in all series of open competitions at school for distinction of excellence, and won all the top titles, and is honored with the Medal of Wu Tao (Medal of Martial Art and Tao). This Certificate serves as proof of all above merits.

Zhong Yuan Shaolin Martial Arts School (Seal)
Yu Chang-Ming (Seal) – Master of Iron Palm
Founder and Principal

Given on this fifteenth day of January, nineteen hundred sixty-four

Have Fun!

So he started at 10 years old and learned for 10 years? And in that time learnt 900 forms, so 90 a year. And he's the Grandmaster of all Shaolin and a bunch of other non-Shaolin styles? O.K.

[NJM]

so 90 a year.

If this is true, The would have to be a super-genius or a savant (no, fools, not autistic people).

[kwaichang]

Wow NJM you are right. Good job you win the prize KC

[NJM]

Wow NJM you are right. Good job you win the prize KC

Ah, kwai, you and your sarcasm...

[bawang]

Ok, define real shaolin. Are you talking about what's being taught at henan now? Or are you talking about bak si lum, hung gar, CLF, or the other hundreds of chinsese arts that claim that they teach shaolin also? When you've figured that out give me a call.

myself haven't seen any south fist places claiming to be directly from shaolin, only shaolin do and a wing chun place.

i'm talking about Henan shaolin. Even if their stuff changes, they are still Shaolin. Even if they don't teach kung fu they are still Shaolin.

if you claim real shaolin, where is your qigong. where is the iron training. where is the chan buddhism.

even if shaolin do is fake that's okay with me, everybody needs to make a living. i just think to claim diresclty from shaolin you at least need some SKILLS.

[sean_stonehart]

What you talking about willis, I mean Sean ???? KC

Dunno... do you understand the words that are coming out of my mowf???

I thought I typed in pretty straight forward English. I didn't even use my native Southern so it oughta be ok een on the other side of the pond.

[brucereiter]

So he started at 10 years old and learned for 10 years? And in that time learnt 900 forms, so 90 a year. And he's the Grandmaster of all Shaolin and a bunch of other non-Shaolin styles? O.K.

those are not the facts. please do not add to the confusion ... if you have a question ask it but do not help in the spreading of mis information.

below is a basic time line of shaolin do the way i understand it. if anyone would like to correct any mistake and also add any information please do.

1880 ie chang ming was born in fukien province. At some point entered the shaolin temple and then followed su kong tai jin into the mountains.
1881
1882
1883
1884
1885
1886
1887
1888
1889
1890
1891
1892
1893
1894
1895
1896
1897
1898
1899
1900
1901
1902
1903
1904
1905
1906
1907
1908
1909
1910
1911 ching dynasty falls, some time after ie chand ming kills ching soldiers and flees to bandung indonesia. (may have left after 1928 since ie is said to have studied with su kong until his death???)
1912
1913
1914
1915
1916
1917
1918
1919
1920
1921
1922
1923
1924
1925
1926
1927
1928
1929
1930
1931
1932
1933
1934
1935
1936
1937
1938
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943 sin kwang the' born in bandung indonesia
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948 hiang kwang the born in bandung indonesia/ sin kwang the' began sandburn training for 6 months
1949
1950 sin kwang the started to study at ie chang mings school "central shaolin wushu school" in bandung
1951
1952
1953
1954 sin kwang the studied "lower school"
1955 sin kwang the studied "lower school" and awarded black belt level 1
1956 sin kwang the studied "middle school"
1957 sin kwang the studied "middle school"
1958 sin kwang the studied "middle school" and awarded black belt level 3 /some time around 15 years old sin the meets "master wu" and is introduced to internal.
1959 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
1960 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
1961 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
1962 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
1963 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
1964 sin kwang the awarded black belt level 5. sin kwang the moved to lexington ky to start college. Same year he starts teaching shaolin in lexington.
1965
1966
1967
1968 ie chang ming awarded sin kwang the 10th degree red belt grandmaster/1968 mideast national tournament, bill walace competed.
1969
1970
1971 national karate grand championship sat sept 18 1971 u.k. coliseum
1972
1973
1974
1975
1976 ie chang ming dies in bandung indonesia/some claim he died in 1968.
1977
1978 sin kwang the opens the "sports center" according to the trademark records the first use of the phrase "shaolin do" was used in 1978
1979
1980 sin the created a video tape that was used to catalog his material for and eventual copyright
1981
1982
1983
1984
1985
1986 sr master gary grooms opens a chinese shaolin center in atlanta the sign read "shaolin martial arts" + "kung fu-tai chi" grandmaster sin saw the sign and said he teachs shaolin karate.
1987
1988
1989
1990 aug 9 1990 sin kwang the registered for a copyright on the material presented in his system. the claim limit is "selection and ordering of exercises"
1991
1992 july 1 1992, sin the attends a event in bandung to honor him and ie chang ming's peers presented sin the with a case containing some of ie chang mings possessions including many notes and books about various martial arts. (i do not know any names of ie chang mings peers who were there maybe someone can help)
i think this is where a great deal of the material came from.
1993
1994 ?? System is named "shaolin do" ?? But may have been called "shaolin do" some time before.
1995 sin kwang the and james halladay release the book "shaolin do secrets from the temple"
1996
1997
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

[brucereiter]

myself haven't seen any south fist places claiming to be directly from shaolin, only shaolin do and a wing chun place.

i'm talking about Henan shaolin. Even if their stuff changes, they are still Shaolin. Even if they don't teach kung fu they are still Shaolin.

if you claim real shaolin, where is your qigong. where is the iron training. where is the chan buddhism.

even if shaolin do is fake that's okay with me, everybody needs to make a living. i just think to claim diresclty from shaolin you at least need some SKILLS.

shein tein chi and hou tein chi and i chin ching i think are the foundational chi kung practices in shaolin do. so there they are ...

iron training is also a big part of the training ... some of the guys make their own jow etc and some buy it ... i do not do this practice but i have watched others train it and the method seems similar to other systems of shaolin.

from what i understand sin kwang the is a Christian. some who practice are Buddhist but that part of shaolin is not taught. i think it is better not to argue religion on the net.

keep looking and you will hear many claims from many groups that all contradict one another :-)

please ask more questions,

best

bruce

p.s. these are my opinions and the facts as i understand them. i could be wrong :-)

[Toby]

those are not the facts. please do not add to the confusion ... if you have a question ask it but do not help in the spreading of mis information.

Sorry, I was just going off the certificate information that was posted. On that apparently it said he was 20 and had been learning for 10 years.

Also, the common story is he knows 900 forms:

In Shaolin Do, this body of knowledge is almost limitless, as Grandmaster Thé constantly reveals new training and forms from the 900-plus Shaolin forms he has mastered.

And again, maybe I'm wrong but I thought one of the main bones of contention was his claims to be the only Grandmaster of Shaolin. E.g.:

Su Kong was therefore able to complete every branch of Shaolin training, learning and mastering hundreds of forms and disciplines. It was an unparalleled achievement. [Usually the 10 Grandmasters of the temple each learned 1/10th of the Shaolin art].
...
From Grandmaster Su Kong it passed to Grandmaster Ie-Chang Ming, and now resides with our current Grandmaster, Sin Kwang Thé.

Implying that SD contains more than any other individual Grandmaster commonly knew.

So am I misunderstanding something?

[bawang]

shein tein chi and hou tein chi and i chin ching i think are the foundational chi kung practices in shaolin do. so there they are ...

iron training is also a big part of the training ... some of the guys make their own jow etc and some buy it ... i do not do this practice but i have watched others train it and the method seems similar to other systems of shaolin.

from what i understand sin kwang the is a Christian. some who practice are Buddhist but that part of shaolin is not taught. i think it is better not to argue religion on the net.

keep looking and you will hear many claims from many groups that all contradict one another :-)

please ask more questions,

best

bruce

p.s. these are my opinions and the facts as i understand them. i could be wrong :-)

well it's good that at least some people in shaolin do are trying to make a difference. it seem quality in shaolin do is varied. one in my old city was very bad.

i'm christian too. because i am a christian i won't learn shaolin, out of respect for shaolin. shaolin is nothing without buddhism. then it would be a collection of 900 year old chinese military drills.
since mister sin the is christian, it would be rude of him to teach a buddhist martial art. he shouldn've claimed direct lineage from Taiping Heavenly Kingdom.
the taiping rebellion was awesome. jesus inspired kung fu