View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #7501
    Quote Originally Posted by mkriii View Post
    So GM Sin The' claims he is the grandmaster? Well it's kind of funny how he can go from an 8th degree BB to a 10th degree BB in a matter of a few months. He leaves the country and comes back 2 degrees higher. I've hear numerous stories of how he one some tournament and decided after that that he was good enough to be a 10th degree BB some he self promoted himself.
    are you claiming that ie chang ming did not name sin kwang the the grandmaster of his system in 1968? all evidence i can find says that he did.

    ===============================================

    below is a basic time line of shaolin do the way i understand it. if anyone would like to correct any mistake and also add any information please do.

    1880 ie chang ming was born in fukien province. At some point entered the shaolin temple and then followed su kong tai jin into the mountains.
    1881
    1882
    1883
    1884
    1885
    1886
    1887
    1888
    1889
    1890
    1891
    1892
    1893
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    1899
    1900
    1901
    1902
    1903
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    1905
    1906
    1907
    1908
    1909
    1910
    1911 ching dynasty falls, some time after ie chand ming kills ching soldiers and flees to bandung indonesia. (may have left after 1928 since ie is said to have studied with su kong until his death???)
    1912
    1913
    1914
    1915
    1916
    1917
    1918
    1919
    1920
    1921
    1922
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    1928
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    1930
    1931
    1932
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    1937
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    1939
    1940
    1941
    1942
    1943 sin kwang the' born in bandung indonesia
    1944
    1945
    1946
    1947
    1948 hiang kwang the born in bandung indonesia/ sin kwang the' began sandburn training for 6 months
    1949
    1950 sin kwang the started to study at ie chang mings school "central shaolin wushu school" in bandung
    1951
    1952
    1953
    1954 sin kwang the studied "lower school"
    1955 sin kwang the studied "lower school" and awarded black belt level 1
    1956 sin kwang the studied "middle school"
    1957 sin kwang the studied "middle school"
    1958 sin kwang the studied "middle school" and awarded black belt level 3 /some time around 15 years old sin the meets "master wu" and is introduced to internal.
    1959 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
    1960 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
    1961 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
    1962 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
    1963 sin kwang the studied "upper school"
    1964 sin kwang the awarded black belt level 5. sin kwang the moved to lexington ky to start college. Same year he starts teaching shaolin in lexington.
    1965
    1966
    1967
    1968 ie chang ming awarded sin kwang the 10th degree red belt grandmaster/1968 mideast national tournament, bill wallace competed.
    1969
    1970
    1971 national karate grand championship sat sept 18 1971 u.k. coliseum
    1972
    1973
    1974
    1975
    1976 ie chang ming dies in bandung indonesia/some claim he died in 1968.
    1977
    1978 sin kwang the opens the "sports center" according to the trademark records the first use of the phrase "shaolin do" was used in 1978
    1979
    1980 sin the created a video tape that was used to catalog his material for and eventual copyright
    1981
    1982
    1983
    1984
    1985
    1986 sr master gary grooms opens a chinese shaolin center in atlanta the sign read "shaolin martial arts" + "kung fu-tai chi" grandmaster sin saw the sign and said he teachs shaolin karate.
    1987
    1988
    1989
    1990 aug 9 1990 sin kwang the registered for a copyright on the material presented in his system. the claim limit is "selection and ordering of exercises"
    1991
    1992 july 1 1992, sin the attends a event in bandung to honor him and ie chang ming's peers presented sin the with a case containing some of ie chang mings possessions including many notes and books about various martial arts. (i do not know any names of ie chang mings peers who were there maybe someone can help)
    i think this is where a great deal of the material came from.
    1993
    1994 ?? System is named "shaolin do" ?? But may have been called "shaolin do" some time before.
    1995 sin kwang the and james halladay release the book "shaolin do secrets from the temple"
    1996
    1997
    1998
    1999
    2000
    2001
    2002
    2003
    2004
    2005
    2006
    2007
    best,

    bruce

    Happy indeed we live,
    friendly amidst the hostile.
    Amidst hostile men
    we dwell free from hatred.

    http://youtube.com/profile?user=brucereiter

  2. #7502
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    GMT is not the grandmaster of what is being taught at the temples now, but that is still "shaolin". He is the master of the material that left the temple and has taught to him by GGM Ie. That's an accomplishment and not intended to take anything away or be disrespectful in any way.
    !!!!!!!!! this has been said over and over he yet people still seem to twist it around ... !!!!!!
    i think that is a great description. i also think this is what sin kwang the thinks about his position.
    best,

    bruce

    Happy indeed we live,
    friendly amidst the hostile.
    Amidst hostile men
    we dwell free from hatred.

    http://youtube.com/profile?user=brucereiter

  3. #7503
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaolindoiscool View Post
    !!!!!!!!! this has been said over and over he yet people still seem to twist it around ... !!!!!!
    i think that is a great description. i also think this is what sin kwang the thinks about his position.
    OK, who owns www.shaolingrandmaster.com then?

    Because the biography on that site would lead one to believe he is the grandmaster of all Shaolin.

  4. #7504
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    I know that my teacher was at a tournament where Sin The' was twirling a staff that was on fire and he spun it so fast that the flames went out. After doing this he (sin the') said he was so good that he should be a 10th degree black belt. We will never know the truth because the former GM and Hairy Man are both dead. It is sad that there are so many people that are brain washed by all this BS. I know it's BS because I was a student of GM Sin's back at the Sin The' Sports Center on Richmond Rd. back in the early 80's (1982 I think).

  5. #7505
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    OK, who owns www.shaolingrandmaster.com then?

    Because the biography on that site would lead one to believe he is the grandmaster of all Shaolin.
    Second paragraph is where I found the quote I cited. http://www.shaolingrandmaster.com/about.html

    Here (page 1) he identifies himself as "The Grandmaster of Shaolin-Do" http://www.shaolingrandmaster.com/biography.html

    Here (page 6) he identifies himself as the Grandmaster of Shaolin: http://www.shaolingrandmaster.com/biography.html

    Page 9 http://www.shaolingrandmaster.com/biography.html he identifies himself as the youngest grandmaster in the history of shaolin and then says he decided to dedicate his life to the preservation of shaolin-do.

    As I said, he at different times he referes to himself as both the grandmaster of shaolin and the grandmaster of shaolin-do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  6. #7506
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkriii View Post
    I know that my teacher was at a tournament where Sin The' was twirling a staff that was on fire and he spun it so fast that the flames went out. After doing this he (sin the') said he was so good that he should be a 10th degree black belt. We will never know the truth because the former GM and Hairy Man are both dead. It is sad that there are so many people that are brain washed by all this BS. I know it's BS because I was a student of GM Sin's back at the Sin The' Sports Center on Richmond Rd. back in the early 80's (1982 I think).
    And now you're a student of John Ng's line? I have no axe to grind with sifu Ng and sifu Dufresne (we've cordially corresponded on more than one occassion) but its no secret that the students of our respective styles often clash and display a fair degree of animosity (especially those from the early 80s when everything came to a head--well before my SD time too by the way).

    I will agree that since Su Kong and E Chang Ming are deceased, then the ability to verify many of SD's claims are limited.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  7. #7507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    I know--SD identifies temples and material that is coming from temples that most dispute. I understand your objections.

    As far as body mechanics etc., no doubt the material has evolved into its own animal. The problem is compounded by the inter-mingling of different material and a tendancy of some teachers and schools to rush through material without ever spending time teaching anything other than form.
    Thank you Counselor...
    Message: Due to the ongoing Recession, God has decided the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off due to power costs. That is all.

  8. #7508
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    OK, who owns www.shaolingrandmaster.com then?

    Because the biography on that site would lead one to believe he is the grandmaster of all Shaolin.
    hi mk,

    i do not know who "owns" it but it was made buy a atlanta student who was guided by grandmaster sin kwang the' about what the site would say.

    i disagree with your opinion regarding the bio on the linked site that there is any implication of authority, leadership or control of any martial art system or group of people practicing any shaolin system other than the one known as "shaolin do".

    best,

    bruce
    best,

    bruce

    Happy indeed we live,
    friendly amidst the hostile.
    Amidst hostile men
    we dwell free from hatred.

    http://youtube.com/profile?user=brucereiter

  9. #7509
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaolindoiscool View Post
    hi mk,

    i do not know who "owns" it but it was made buy a atlanta student who was guided by grandmaster sin kwang the' about what the site would say.

    i disagree with your opinion regarding the bio on the linked site that there is any implication of authority, leadership or control of any martial art system or group of people practicing any shaolin system other than the one known as "shaolin do".

    best,

    bruce
    "One man emerged from the flames to carry on the tradition of the Shaolin Temple. This man was known as the Grandmaster.

    In accordance with tradition, only one person can carry this title. Since that time, only three have. Each, in his time, the ultimate practitioner of the art."

    "Grandmaster E died in 1976, but not before passing all his knowledge on to me, the current Grandmaster of Shaolin."

    "Mastering more than 900 forms from over 100 fighting systems, I became the youngest Grandmaster in 1500 years of Shaolin history."

    "After Grandmaster E's death, I realized that while there were many engineers in the world, there was only one Grandmaster of Shaolin..."

    You don't see a conflict there, Bruce?

    BTW, Su Kong was at the oldest 26 when he fled to the mountains according to that website. How old was he when he became "The Grandmaster"?
    Last edited by MasterKiller; 09-26-2007 at 10:57 AM.

  10. #7510
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkriii View Post
    I know that my teacher was at a tournament where Sin The' was twirling a staff that was on fire and he spun it so fast that the flames went out. After doing this he (sin the') said he was so good that he should be a 10th degree black belt.

    BSS


    We will never know the truth because the former GM and Hairy Man are both dead. It is sad that there are so many people that are brain washed by all this BS. I know it's BS because I was a student of GM Sin's back at the Sin The' Sports Center on Richmond Rd. back in the early 80's (1982 I think).
    You think

  11. #7511
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    I don't have a ax to grind with Sin The' or any of his students. I would just like to know the truth of his authenticity/lineage. I've heard so many stories that may or may not be true. Everyone that tells these stories of amazing feats that Sin has done has never seen him actually do them. All the stories start with "a friend of mine saw GM sin do ....." But anyways, about my training. I studied under Sin's brother at the Sin The' Sport Center and got up to brown belt. I don't know how he opperates now but back then when we would sparr in class he did not allow ANY contact at all. We were told to stop 2 inches away from the opponent. I did not think this was very realistic or good training method. How is one to react in a real fight if he has never been hit before? This was at Brown belt level. So I left. I started studying at Four Season under John Ng. When John Ng closed his doors in I believe 1989 I went to Master John Dufresne's school - International Kung Fu Academy over in Gainsway Shopping Center. I have followed him to every school when he would move from one location to another. I still train under him and just saw him about a month ago. He is doing a seminar in Nashville Tn at Master Rusty Gray's school and I'll be attending that. Master Gray is doing a Wing Chun seminar and Master Dufresne is doing a seminar on Pa Qua & Hsing I. I am a second level black sash under Master Dufresne but in reality I propbably should be a 3rd level, just never tested for it since Master dufresne moved back to Boston. Back to Shaolin Do....This is really getting to be like beating a dead horse. There are so many threads related to this topic. It's getting kind of old. But it's always still interesting to find out new "stuff" about GM Sin.

  12. #7512
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    And what is your martial art history with GM Sin The'?

  13. #7513
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkriii View Post
    I don't have a ax to grind with Sin The' or any of his students. I would just like to know the truth of his authenticity/lineage. I've heard so many stories that may or may not be true. Everyone that tells these stories of amazing feats that Sin has done has never seen him actually do them. All the stories start with "a friend of mine saw GM sin do ....." But anyways, about my training. I studied under Sin's brother at the Sin The' Sport Center and got up to brown belt. I don't know how he opperates now but back then when we would sparr in class he did not allow ANY contact at all. We were told to stop 2 inches away from the opponent. I did not think this was very realistic or good training method. How is one to react in a real fight if he has never been hit before? This was at Brown belt level. So I left. I started studying at Four Season under John Ng. When John Ng closed his doors in I believe 1989 I went to Master John Dufresne's school - International Kung Fu Academy over in Gainsway Shopping Center. I have followed him to every school when he would move from one location to another. I still train under him and just saw him about a month ago. He is doing a seminar in Nashville Tn at Master Rusty Gray's school and I'll be attending that. Master Gray is doing a Wing Chun seminar and Master Dufresne is doing a seminar on Pa Qua & Hsing I. I am a second level black sash under Master Dufresne but in reality I propbably should be a 3rd level, just never tested for it since Master dufresne moved back to Boston. Back to Shaolin Do....This is really getting to be like beating a dead horse. There are so many threads related to this topic. It's getting kind of old. But it's always still interesting to find out new "stuff" about GM Sin.
    Been around since 74....under GMS no contact to face or knee joints......everything else is fair game as long as you don't try and kill the guy. There were alot of bad experiences in the sport center years
    BQ

  14. #7514
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    why is it that on Sin The' web page and his brothers web page they no long acknowledge one another? What was the falling out over? It's like the two don't want to admit that the other one exists.

  15. #7515
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    I personally think that most if not all the material taught up until 1990,gms probably learned in Indonesia. All this new stuff is probably coming from other sources. If you look at the master certificates they don't list the new stuff.

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