Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[sean_stonehart]

Man you are a Joke I dont know you but I have only spokem with you maybe once E Mail. I still wait for you to prove your point. My opinion is you couldnt take the training and quit. If you cant take it what is your point then ? You are rude and disrespectful. As far as admitting something You show some proof and I will. You listed some things that arent Shaolin I showed you how they were. You act like a baby and sull up if you are proven wrong. Get a Job make something of your self. KC

Yeah ok... as an example

How is

address the Tai Chi statement

T'ai Chi Ch'uan is a Taoist internal martial art. One account of the history of T'ai Chi Ch'uan credits its development to the Taoist immortal Chang San-feng, who is said to have drawn the inspiration for the art by watching a fight between an snake and an aggressive eagle. Chang San-feng was reportedly a master of Shaolin Kung Fu who reached an extraordinary level of cultivation through Taoist internal practices. Another account of the history of T'ai Chi Ch'uan is that many different Kung Fu masters developed it over a long period of time; as a synthesis of internal meditation and martial technique. Either way, the written history of T'ai Chi Ch'uan goes back about 300 years and it was not until the turn of the 20th century that it was introduced to the general public.

proving taiji is a Shaolin art?

Right... Chang San-feng... the legendary teacher of the Chen family.

Tell you what... show me three things as undisputed fact. Show directly where & I'll go away...

Show me where

• Tiger Crane came from the "Kwangtung Temple"
• Zha Quan came from the "Kwangtung Temple"
• "Classical" Bagua Zhang came from the "Wu Tang Temple"

BTW... the list of styles can be found... http://www.ohioshaolindo.com/ShaolinMaterial.htm

Show me where the Tiger Crane Duet & Zha Quan came directly from with no outside influence or development the "Kwangtung Temple" and the "Classical" bagua done at 1st black came directly from with no outside influence or development the "Wu Tang Temple".

Direct from the temples as they are & out to the populus... no stop overs, no secondary development, anything...

The ball is in your court.

[sean_stonehart]

Dude, that wasn't the first time. I didn't want to go through 499 pages to find more of it.
I am in no way saying you left for the wrong reasons, I don't know anything about you other than meeting once. Just don't care for you coming on here to have the reader think that you, as a former SDer, are implying something that I think is offensive. Nothing more or less.

BM2... sorry to offend. It wasn't intended as such directly as such, but maybe I was hoping people would use it as a "stop & pause" moment.

It's not a big deal. There's more forms swapping between CMAs than there is drugs for money, but the deal is most CMA people don't misconstrue (intentionally or not) where it came from or how.

If it weren't for forms swapping, we'd be short a lot of stuff in the CMA world. But generally there was also a common thread found between people who were swapping things. A common training background so that somebody had been doing a similar style wouldn't loose what the form imparted. Kinda like a GMC & Chevy. Different labels, but mostly the same thing.

[Yao Sing]

I heard Sin The recently spent a few weeks in Puerto Rico. You guys should be seeing a Chupacabra set sometime in the next 6 months.

[kwaichang]

Key in Hung Gar in Google.

According to legend, Master Gee See,a monk of the Fukien Shaolin Temple, taught Hung the Shaolin Tiger Style. Hung being a curious man, always sought to improve his skills. He added to his Tiger Style elements from his wife's White Crane system, movements from the Dragon, Snake, and Leopard forms, and techniques from the Five Elements Fist.He modified and expanded his Tiger Style to develop a system better balanced in long- and short-range application,a system which better reflected his own character and skills -- Hung Gar.

Tiger Crane is sometime known as Hung Gar. BTW there is no definitive proof of anything except maybe Math. Every thing seems to be read as Legend History , which is his story ,one account, or Theory. So you ask too much. Also in SD we trace our origins to 6 shaolin temples not 1 and we do not say it was an art indigenous to the temples some were brought in by warriors others were taught and left the temple at some point and taught in the public arena. If you knew and talked to GMS you would know this. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

Man you are a Joke ... My opinion is you couldnt take the training and quit. If you cant take it what is your point then ? You are rude and disrespectful.

Alright, KC. Take it easy dude. Why you in such a huff anyways, when you've seen the light?

Sean has his opinions. If he couldn't take the training and quit, why'd he take the training elsewhere?

Look, who cares if someone says GM Sin learned from a DVD? Hahaha......I have like 5-6 DVD's from SD, two of them featuring GM Sin---breaking down our festival forms by sections. I can tell you, although I learned the postures in a day, the strikes, and the moves, I didn't do them correctly or fluently. But I'm good at a couple of those forms now---so did I learn by DVD? Did you?

As for the issue of the Mulan fans.......dude, it's fans......who cares where he got them from? The question is, where can we hide them to get rid of them?


Fans are gay.......

[Shaolin Wookie]

I still don't know why SD says the temples were connected. We know certain ones had Taoist monks, and others had Buddhist ones, with Shaolin at Henan/Fukien. Is SD claiming that they were all Shao-lin, or all martial? If it's the former, they're wrong. If it's the latter, they're kind of right. But even then, they're different martial arts.....so they're still kind of wrong.

For instance, if we use the college metaphor for Shaolin like SD uses, you could not, under those circumstances, enter as a transient student or a transfer at Wu-Tang (clan ain't nuthin' to **** wit') if you studied at Henan. first off, it's a different religion with a different order of monks, with a different philosophy, geography, culture, history, hairstyle, etc.......

So what's the deal?

For the sake of martial arts, sure, Tai Chi might have been practiced at Shaolin by some students, learned from outsiders. But that doesn't make it Shaolin.

[kwaichang]

If it was taught at the Shaolin Temple then it is SHAOLIN. It may not be from the temple but few things were from the temple except CHAN which came from India KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

Sure, if you want to call the cheeseburger you can get at on a Chinese restaurant's kid menu Chinese food.

[kwaichang]

The Pizza Pie as we know it is not from Italy it was developed in the US in New York by 2 guys way back when, is it Italian or American ???
The Shaolin taught today Wah Lum for example traces its lineage to the Shaolin Temple. If this is true then it too is Shaolin even though I doubt it looks the same as when or if it were trained in the temple.
Shaolin Do means Way of Shaolin not Indeginous to Shaolin. That is where the debate begins. I feel as do others that if it was taught in the Temple then it is Shaolin as the Monks or who ever changed the original style and cultivated it from there.
There are few PURE styles from the Shaolin Temple/ Monastery and those that were are forever changed by time. Unfortunate but true. So every style that is from Shaolin, SD, what ever is not true Shaolin under these circumstances and by your definition. KC

[kwaichang]

It amazes me how so many can come on here and speak with so much authority about what they know so little about. If you werent there you dont know. It is all speculation based on "his story" Whole lota egos goin on. KC
anyone want to go for 1000.

[Shaolin Wookie]

It amazes me how so many can come on here and speak with so much authority about what they know so little about. If you werent there you dont know.

Precisely. And you weren't there, and neither was GM The', and neither was GGM Ie Chang Ming......or was he?

Well anyways, neither were you, and neither was GM The'.

Here's an example from a subject that touches closer to some hearts:

Christmas is not the day of Christ's birth. It was a pagan holiday the Christian church hijacked, a day on which the pagans (especially Mithraic mystery cults/Zoroastrians) marked the winter solstice. Curiously, Mithras was also the son of a virgin, his birth was foretold by a star, shepherds attended his birth, etc.

So, are you guys willing to concede that Christianity includes Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, and multitudes of older, pagan cultic mythos in its own canon, and in fact encompasses the pagan orders of worship it eviscerates? That Mithraism is Christianity? That Christianity is Zoroastrianism?

This is the same logic you uphold. The question is, do you dare hold it for all of its logical ramifications?

So long as there is no irrefutable evidence, it is our responsibility to debate them, yes, and sometimes ad nauseum. See, then you take the most common elements of the stories, weigh them against each other, weigh them against Chinese history, legend, and folklore, weigh them against the large pool of ideas, and select what is simple, concise, and believable. It's not truth, but it's an approximation.

Honestly, SD doesn't gel very well compared to many arts. Hence the reason it is singled out so often. And rightly so.

I employ the same processes in all the research I do for term papers and my thesis. If I didn't, I'd be an idiot, and I'd cite from untrustworthy sources, and I'd be called an idiot.

Many SD info sources (websites, the Do book) are poorly referenced....meaning, we're getting hearsay, not research.

[kwaichang]

You seem to be an athiest I am not going to debate religion with you as you are of course a logic based person and want "proof". I dont have time for that but you seem to bash and get on your anti religion soap box often. However because I celebrate Christs BDay on Dec 25th does not mean I believe or practice the other. And what does this have to do with Martial Arts you didnt even address my post prior to that one. I would believe GMT long before you or these other jokers on here when he says something with dates etc I research it and other than a date like 1240 was 1243 there are no faul;t in what he says historically. KC

[Shaolin Wookie]

SD does have its value. Sometimes its history is well-founded, sometimes it's not. But to be honest, if they didn't offer the Eight Immortals Drunken styles (which nobody offers in any state bordering GA), I'd probably have left it be on intellectual grounds and gone elsewhere to study something else. LOL.....not that it's that big a deal......but sometimes it is, because of the principle. But I'm willing to compromise, to get what I want.

[kwaichang]

SW since you work for the Gov or Big brother I will forgive you for being brain washed. But I will disregard any of your ststements about SD since you have trained in it for only 2 years. Per your references. . KC

[kwaichang]

Shaolin Temples and their Associated Fighting Systems

天下武功出少林

This is from the web site posted by SS it does not say from the temples does it ??? . KC