Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Baqualin]

I agree hsing I and 8 drunks were taught in the 80's. But why did he wait so long? In the 70's he didn't care how many students stayed. But when money became an issue and he needed more students he had to give them what they wanted.
Yes my instructor does charge a fee. But that's for classes throughout the week working and correcting mistakes. Sin the teaches 2 or 3 seminars and can make as much as my instructor clears in a year! And sin just runs through the form. No correction. But this is just my experience.

All the high end CMA's do these same seminars......at least we have our teachers like JP stated, to work with long after the seminar is over.....here the seminar material is worked on every week.
BQ

[Baqualin]

I was talking to my instructor a few weeks ago and we were talking about how things used to be back in the 70's. And there were a few things that were very surprising.
But first alittle background on my instructor and myself. He started in the early 70's at the U of K sin the karate club and I started in 1984. He has continually taught since the late 70's and I have been off and on due to work.
Back in the 70's things were different. Sin The didn't care about money he just loved to teach. Conditioning and sparring were more important than forms. He wanted to weed people out he made classes hard and if you didn't come back, oh well.
For the first roughly 14 years there wasn't alot of forms. You had the current material up through brown belt, and from brown to black you had everything except the cranes, birds, connecting fist, five dir. fist palm, and one of the bo forms. That's 9 forms! And from 1st black to 2nd black there were only 5 forms. Tai chi and pakua were two of them, dont remember the other three.
In my opinion this is when you had people that were very good. Because they were well conditioned and focused on a few forms. It was like this for around 14 years. But then sin the and the senior students wanted to start keeping people longer and that is why they added the 9 forms to brown belt in the early 80's. I think he had some of this material already just waiting for enough people to have the coditionioning to do more advanced stuff like 8 drunken immortals. I really dont think he had much past this though. But I guess he realized to make more money he needed more forms, and now you have SD of today. People trying to learn too much stuff and not being able to use or perform it well.
In my opinion sin the should have stayed with the core material and not added chen or snake pa kua,etc which obviously he didn't learn first hand. Any of the old timers have opinions?

I was there.....74 UK club and I agree with most of what you say, especially about to much material, but for one I'm glad he has taught the Internal forms...I have been able to specialize in that area now....I no longer practice any external forms and at my age I don't intend to.
BQ

[Baqualin]

I don't share that opinion, but I share the spirit of it.
I think he should have approached things more scientific.

That's all I want to say about that. Most of what you said is very true, though, historically speaking.

edit - except I cannot verify or deny that line about GMS learning firsthand. I tend to disagree, but I err on the side of optimism.

Hey Shadowlin....how the h#ll are you........M says hello to you & your wife...we hope all is well.
BQ

[Citong Shifu]

I came across these on youtube. I dont know if they have been posted with earlier discussions, but here they are.

Shaolin Do "Golden Leopard" (Sr. Master Garry Grooms)

Shaolin Do "Student/s Interviews"

Shaolin Do "Interview with Sin The"


There are actually several more clips of SD & Garry Grooms on youtube. I judt didnt have time to post them all.

[mkriii]

is that shaolin golden shower.....LOL?

[brucereiter]

I came across these on youtube. I dont know if they have been posted with earlier discussions, but here they are.

Shaolin Do "Golden Leopard" (Sr. Master Garry Grooms)

Shaolin Do "Student/s Interviews"

Shaolin Do "Interview with Sin The"


There are actually several more clips of SD & Garry Grooms on youtube. I judt didnt have time to post them all.

hi ...

here is the link to my teachers youtube channel there are about a dozen clips
http://www.youtube.com/user/srmastergarygrooms

here is a link to my youtube channel ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter

"shaolin legends" youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/shaolinlegends

these are the ones i would prefer to discuss. if you have any questions please ask.

[Shaolin Wookie]

In my experience, GMT does teach the form rather quickly in a seminar without correction, but I know that he spends several days teaching that same form to my teachers with training and application. Prior to the form part of the insturction, my teachers usually put us through some of that training as a warm up before GMT starts telling the story or the form and doing the instruction. Then for several weeks after the form we are expected to review the notes and the DVD of the form and our teachers will have review classes where corrections are offered. But that's just my experience.

I worry about our art getting watered down too much too. I think that too many people have too many forms in too short of a period of time, so I understand what you are saying bodhi warrior. But I know KC and know how hard the man trains and he does keep a good handle on all of his material, so whether our art is too watered down by a number of forms depends on the individual and their training ethic. I can't do most of my forms justis, but that's just me and my limitations. Mentally, I can do about 70% of what I've been taught, and the rest of the material I would have to go back to my notes and video to work it up. I can live with that seeing I've been in the art for 19 years now.

I just feel it's best to do whatever you have to in order to pass a test. Cramming isn't out of order. For the rest, train what you like and specialize in your favorites. I'd rather be good at six of my favorite forms than equally crappy at all twenty.....LOL.....just pick a major, unless you want to be a general education major (and wind up with a little depth in this or that, and everything in general, but nothing in depth).
It's not out of order to let some forms fall by the wayside....and even though I try not to let them do that, it happens a little here and there. The best forms are generally the festival ones, but they're also the hardest. Most people let them deteriorate, so there's not always a great pool of experience even from senior students. So they become your own.

I don't know what the memory issues are with material. I don't generally forget a form, but here and there I might add a different punch or kick, or a slightly wrong combination....but who cares as long as I punch and kick hard? Yeah, you fix it eventually, but it doesn't really matter in the long run....

Still, most forms build on others. It's always the same motions (those of your short forms, dressed up with different moods/animal characteristics) and stances. You just do them in a different order, from different angles, with different hand forms, with different combinations....but it's always the same basic motion, so it's generally not that hard to remember. If you really enjoy a style, like I enjoy the cranes, you'll develop a different way of approaching those sets. I don't punch the same when I do the crane as when I do a tiger form. But then, that's a difference that comes with familiarity rather than generaliation. I haven't done my sai form in forever, but I could go outside and do it with 1-2 reps review. But then, I could do the kwan dao no problem. I don't like the sais, but I love the kwan dao. I can live with that.

If I make in "A" in my favorite forms, I don't really care if I get a "C" on the ones I think are pointless and dull. But I know they help round out my education, and do me some general good. Kind of like cough medicine.

[Shaolin Wookie]

But I guess he realized to make more money he needed more forms, and now you have SD of today. People trying to learn too much stuff and not being able to use or perform it well.

LOL....if you think Shaolin-Do is bad, I wonder what you'd think of the notoriously "impecunious" Shaolin...........we're saints compared to those monks....LOL

[Shaolin Wookie]

They're teaching the 1st road of the ground monkey in ATL in a couple of weeks. I know it's supposed to be killer on the abs. Any difficult techniques or moves I should practice to prepare for it?

[Judge Pen]

They're teaching the 1st road of the ground monkey in ATL in a couple of weeks. I know it's supposed to be killer on the abs. Any difficult techniques or moves I should practice to prepare for it?

Naw, its not that bad if you're keeping up on your classes and basic excercises. But maybe I'm spoiled doing hua and drunken immoratals 90% of the time now. It's a neat little form. You can do a kip up and and shoot through without an issue, right?

[kwaichang]

Oh no I have a cold ,,, ahahahahahahbulchit, xcuuuuuseme I had to sneeze KC

[kwaichang]

Haha just joking Judge KC

[shadowlin]

Hey Shadowlin....how the h#ll are you........M says hello to you & your wife...we hope all is well.
BQ

Hey BQ. I'll call you.

I wish Master Grooms had not posted Golden Leopard on Youtube.
Nothing is deemed sacred anymore.

[bakxierboxer]

.... road.... ground monkey....

Indonesians ARE known to be a thrifty lot.... possibly more so than the AmerInds who (I've heard suggested) like to economize with their use of road-kill coyotes (and what-not)....

As for the road-kill/ground-monkey, I've heard that a couple of packages of hamburger buns and your choice of condiments will suffice.

[mkriii]

Hey BQ. I'll call you.

I wish Master Grooms had not posted Golden Leopard on Youtube.
Nothing is deemed sacred anymore.

You mean Golden Shower

I'm back.....did you all miss me?