Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[TrollTerminator]

You mean Golden Shower

I'm back.....did you all miss me?

I see, not only are you a racist, your a pervert too

[mkriii]

ok i'm going to ask this anyways even thouigh i shouldn't humor you......why am i a rascist? what have i said to indicate that?

[BoulderDawg]

It's been forever since I posted here but I talked with a friend yesterday who's still in the program at CSC in Denver. She said there has been talk that the schools are in financial trouble......it a shame really. From what I can see they have a hard time adapting and changing to the times.

[Citong Shifu]

ROFL

Nice foundation.

Awesome job, that was amazing.

No concept of basic dao technique.

I didn't care for the drunken set . He was way too garbled with his movements and lacked the essence of zui quan. His flexibility was very good, but nothing uncommon within the cma. Good effort though. The dao set, I would have to agree. There were alot of dao characteristics missing from the set. Alot of the movements were meaningless or without spirit as well. Once again, good effort on the practitionrers part....

Just my observation, "NO" SD pun intended. Both guys had good effort.

CS

[arinathos.valin]

For the last two posters...

What are the characteristics you're looking for that would mark a good dao set?
In other words, what's the performance lacking that you would put in?

[brucereiter]

I didn't care for the drunken set . He was way too garbled with his movements and lacked the essence of zui quan. His flexibility was very good, but nothing uncommon within the cma.
CS

hi c.s.

i really do not know much about drunken kung fu since i do not practice it but i would ask:
what is this "essence"?
is it not a personal expression?
do the following clips have the "essence" you are speaking of?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W5XpUP...eature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NGZ_XHeUrJc
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2OVsrZDtVHQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I5wmhT...eature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TkIBLOmqk4k
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QWr4q6...eature=related

[brucereiter]

The dao set, I would have to agree. There were alot of dao characteristics missing from the set. Alot of the movements were meaningless or without spirit as well. Once again, good effort on the practitionrers part....

CS

hi c.s.

ok ... i can say this about my teacher and i think most ma teachers alive right now. he has no real world sword fighting experience against another armed "enemey, he has never been in a battle with live swords. :-)

what is a example of a meaningless movement in the dao clip?

[Citong Shifu]

hi c.s.

i really do not know much about drunken kung fu since i do not practice it but i would ask:
what is this "essence"?
is it not a personal expression?
do the following clips have the "essence" you are speaking of?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W5XpUP...eature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NGZ_XHeUrJc
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2OVsrZDtVHQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=I5wmhT...eature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TkIBLOmqk4k
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QWr4q6...eature=related

Bruce, These are really fine examples of the wushu flare drunken boxing, but are more Chinese opera versions mixed with modern tumbling techniques... Drunken boxing makes use of a variety of postures and footwork, as you already know. However, the drunken appearance of the movements are really false and should be executed with stability and power, not as if you really stumble or twist, etc. Every drunken movement executed is done soley on "purpose". Thus giving the appearance of being drunk when not, but in complete control allowing the techniques to be used effectively in combat. Anything else is just a dance or a good cardio workout...

This is purely my point of view from my training in said style. If one cannot fight effectively with this set, then its not being done correctly. Also, alot of drunken style is awesome for total body conditioning, on all levels. No matter what, done correct or incorrect, one will definitely get the conditioning aspects...

Sorry, the essence. Well the essence is really seen and is different for everyone and the way they move. But, overall zui quan essence is always seen or should be; the appearance of being drunk while not appearing to be drunk. (?) Make sense? Although my movement appears to be drunken like, all movements are executed on purpose with purpose, everytime... Well, that enough on that. I spent many hours and lots of $ training these principles, lol... Let me tell you, I didnt understand the contradictions at first either..

Take Care.
CS

[Citong Shifu]

hi c.s.

ok ... i can say this about my teacher and i think most ma teachers alive right now. he has no real world sword fighting experience against another armed "enemey, he has never been in a battle with live swords. :-)

what is a example of a meaningless movement in the dao clip?

Although training sword against sword is an awesome way to really learn your weapon, there is one main factor that will dictate how your weapon is used no mater what and that is the way you train it and its principles... I dont know your teacher or his training, so I cant really say what is or isn't...

Take care
CS

[Citong Shifu]

For the last two posters...

What are the characteristics you're looking for that would mark a good dao set?
In other words, what's the performance lacking that you would put in?

If I was judging this set traditionally, I would judge the spirit and intent of each and every movement, which this set lacked. Also, the principle execution of dao techniques; dao characteristics are that of the tiger, every movement is executed with the utmost speed, power, & intent (chopping, thrusting, slicing, etc). Footwork should be quick, but stable allowing every movement to be fully executed or expressed before moving to the next...

This practitioner did a good job. However, he didnt display the principles of the dao and focused on speed overall.... Remember, this is my take. He may not even really like the dao form, know what I mean...


CS

[Judge Pen]

If I was judging this set traditionally, I would judge the spirit and intent of each and every movement, which this set lacked. Also, the principle execution of dao techniques; dao characteristics are that of the tiger, every movement is executed with the utmost speed, power, & intent (chopping, thrusting, slicing, etc). Footwork should be quick, but stable allowing every movement to be fully executed or expressed before moving to the next...

This practitioner did a good job. However, he didnt display the principles of the dao and focused on speed overall.... Remember, this is my take. He may not even really like the dao form, know what I mean...


CS

Are you saying that when he executed a cut, slicke, thrust, etc. it didn't look like the martial intent (i.e. the intent to cut through something with that swing) was present--that the intent was sacrificed (apparently) for speed.

Was this a performance issue or an issue with the form (even if it was performed by someone who displayed the intent behind the form properly)? Or is there a problem with the structure of the form itself?

[Judge Pen]

Bruce, These are really fine examples of the wushu flare drunken boxing, but are more Chinese opera versions mixed with modern tumbling techniques... Drunken boxing makes use of a variety of postures and footwork, as you already know. However, the drunken appearance of the movements are really false and should be executed with stability and power, not as if you really stumble or twist, etc. Every drunken movement executed is done soley on "purpose". Thus giving the appearance of being drunk when not, but in complete control allowing the techniques to be used effectively in combat. Anything else is just a dance or a good cardio workout...

This is purely my point of view from my training in said style. If one cannot fight effectively with this set, then its not being done correctly. Also, alot of drunken style is awesome for total body conditioning, on all levels. No matter what, done correct or incorrect, one will definitely get the conditioning aspects...

Sorry, the essence. Well the essence is really seen and is different for everyone and the way they move. But, overall zui quan essence is always seen or should be; the appearance of being drunk while not appearing to be drunk. (?) Make sense? Although my movement appears to be drunken like, all movements are executed on purpose with purpose, everytime... Well, that enough on that. I spent many hours and lots of $ training these principles, lol... Let me tell you, I didnt understand the contradictions at first either..

Take Care.
CS

Again, is your criticism more of the performance or the structure of the form? I take it you are equally unimpressed with the essence of the "opera style" drunk boxing's essence as they show movement for performance and conditioning as opposed to martial purpose? Any examples (youtube or otherwise) where we could actually see the flavor that you are referencing and compare it to Bruce's clips?

[BM2]

If I was judging this set traditionally, I would judge the spirit and intent of each and every movement, which this set lacked. Also, the principle execution of dao techniques ...


CS

This is going off on another tangent and in no way should it be taken as criticism of CS's critique and is not targeted to him for a response but for those who read this reply and understand that it is directed at ourselves.
What is the intent of practicing swimming on dry land? Of criticism of some one's style of dry swimming and understanding of dry land swimming?

[tattooedmonk]

Again, is your criticism more of the performance or the structure of the form? I take it you are equally unimpressed with the essence of the "opera style" drunk boxing's essence as they show movement for performance and conditioning as opposed to martial purpose? Any examples (youtube or otherwise) where we could actually see the flavor that you are referencing and compare it to Bruce's clips?

It is the performance. There is nothing wrong with the form. He has not known this form for very long. You can tell.

[Citong Shifu]

Are you saying that when he executed a cut, slicke, thrust, etc. it didn't look like the martial intent (i.e. the intent to cut through something with that swing) was present--that the intent was sacrificed (apparently) for speed.

Was this a performance issue or an issue with the form (even if it was performed by someone who displayed the intent behind the form properly)? Or is there a problem with the structure of the form itself?

JP, From the video, it was both. I did see a few movements that displayed most of the elements, but all in all, I didnt get the feeling of his intent when executing this sets. His movements didnt appear to be strong/powerful just fast with a show of power here and there.

CS