Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
(Again you keep accusing us of hiding stuff that we are not).

Well, I was thinking more like the Chen fan form...even though Chen has no fan form. Those kinds of things.

No offense, but your feelings aren't a big concern of mine.

None taken. It's not like I give a hoot about anyone's feelings here either. It's just the internet.

[Judge Pen]

I don't know if Chen has a fan form. Fan forms are common though. I have a fan form and I was told it was Chen. . . . . maybe it's not. Maybe it is something that a Chen guy in Indoneisa made up one day and taught it to Ie's students. Maybe Sin The made it up altogether. Maybe it was lost. I don't know. To be fair, you don't know either; you just know that no one in Chen's lineage claims to have a fan form. Does that mean that the form was stolen, made up by Sin The? Made up by someone else? Forgotten by someone? I don't know. I don't pretend to know.

I do know that it's a good form; not my favorite, but good applications for that type of weapon.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
you just know that no one in Chen's lineage claims to have a fan form.

Well, it's not like Chen Taiji is 1,000 years old and went through 6 temple burnings or anything. The lineage is easily traced and verifiable.

[Judge Pen]

Ok. So it was either forgotten/lost or created outside the official lineage. (I don't know which). I do know it's not uncommon for students of a style, once they reach a certain level, to create forms using the principles of that style. New forms are being created now in style with very respectable lineages. Is this what happend with SD (either by Sin The or by someone else in the system? With this fan form? I don't know, maybe. Maybe not.

[MasterKiller]

I don't argue with that. People make up forms all the time. I've made up forms for some of my students to perform at shows. I also make sure they know I made it up for them. Leading them to believe otherwise would be dishonest. Paying for a ceremony at Chen village to disguise that dishonesty would be flat out pathetic.

[Judge Pen]

Paying for a ceremony? I thought that was at Henan for the tablet.

[norther practitioner]

I do Clark family kung fu and taiji at every tourney....

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Paying for a ceremony? I thought that was at Henan for the tablet.

Nah ... it was paid for & placed at the wrong location. Big hubub about it...

[AndyM]

Is it just me, or does this guy resemble Dubbya?

[serene_dragon]

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So who came up with the lamo story about Ie changing everything to Japanese to fool the Indonesians, then? If you guys tell a different story internally, that it was for Western convienence, why does SD tell a different story externally, that it's to honor Ie's struggle to maintain the Shaolin arts while being persecuted?
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My opinion of this statement

Take 5 people and teach them a kata or tell them a story at the same time and have them perform that kata or tell that story at a later date. Time and time again you will see that there will be differences in the way the kata are performed and the story are told.

This is the way it is in all teaching I suspect.

As an instructor, I see it all the time. The students who do perform the katas the way they was taught is the students you look at to pass on the teachings when their time comes.

I know how I was told the stories go by my instructor and by GM The', and I also know I have heard many different versions of the same stories from other people in the art. I have no concrete proof of who is right or who is wrong. I am not going to argue about it. I am more worried about the training I get than if all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed in the history.(I am very satisfied with the training)

This is just my opinion

[shen ku]

JP ya there is a tablet in chen village to master sin , and as sean_stonehart said it was paid for by many of the shaolin-do masters, and it was not made as it was ordered and it was not placed where they had been told it would be and some people were ****ed off over it,
and on the chen fan i do remember that at chen village master sin and ? a chen family member?? spoke of that in their linage there had been a fan form and he pointed and a chart of the family as to show at what time it was not passed on, and JP if you get the chance go on one of the china trips with master sin ,trust me you will enjoy it!!

just don't ride the buses in tebit , ask sean_stonehart?

[serene_dragon]

Shen Ku

You went to China with GM Sin The'. Did you vistit any temples or Shaolin schools while you was there?

If you did there might be a few people reading this thread who are interested in knowing how the masters in the temples treated Grandmaster Sin The'. If they showed him respect as a Grandmaster or if they treated him like just another martial artist visiting the temples.

Maybe you could put your thoughts on the subject.

I only ask because I see some people who have a passion about trying to discredit Grandmaster Sin The' and his teachings.

I am curious as to where this passion comes from, is it people who have been removed from this system who is trying to discredit it or is it just jealousy. Who knows it could be anything.
But I would like to hear your thoughts because you was there.

[norther practitioner]

or is it just jealousy.

some should do some searches through the archives.... granted some of it is drivel, and some of it is not.

[serene_dragon]

I am curious as to where this passion comes from, is it people who have been removed from this system who is trying to discredit it or is it just jealousy. Who knows it could be anything.
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I dont mean to imply that it could only be these two reasons if anyone took it that way.

[Judge Pen]

Sure, Sean, wait until I'm on a 3 hour trip to respond!