Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[lostdragon]

even if its not real, it sure has longevity! 607 pages... that's gotta be a record.

[Judge Pen]

even if its not real, it sure has longevity! 607 pages... that's gotta be a record.

We're resilient if nothing else!

[Citong Shifu]

even if its not real, it sure has longevity! 607 pages... that's gotta be a record.

The power of argument!

Real or not, There has been many conversations on this thread that prove and disprove the question at hand or validity of style/s. I think the best course of action would have been to ignore many of the threads and focus more on the facts that coould indeed be traced or verified through Sin The', his brother, their teacher/s, and there teacher's, teacher's... As well as, direct validity through the school affiliates in Indonesia.

Forgive me for saying so, but the SD style or art lost its validity throughout this super thread.... Why do I think this? Read the thread. If the information was discussed factually, this thread would have never reached 607 or even 50 at that matter... Please dont misunderstand, I'm not say I'm against SD or personally attacking the style, but there was just too much attention placed on proving validity and lineage which should have not been the case.... Furthermore, a style or art is not valid due to one's association with another teacher or organization, so these type of conversations are just distractions and should be discussed seperately....

I've enjoyed reading this thread and its replies. Both sides brought very good conversations to the table. However, SD should have ceased the rebuttle or debate after placing their information, lineage, and origins out on the table.... Casual conversation thereafter concerning this information should have been the focus....

Anyway, its all good.... Everyone's happy and those who aren't, oh well.... The fact is this, nothing is going to change either way. Things are what they are...

Take care everyone...

CS

[Judge Pen]

The power of argument!

Real or not, There has been many conversations on this thread that prove and disprove the question at hand or validity of style/s. I think the best course of action would have been to ignore many of the threads and focus more on the facts that coould indeed be traced or verified through Sin The', his brother, their teacher/s, and there teacher's, teacher's... As well as, direct validity through the school affiliates in Indonesia.

Forgive me for saying so, but the SD style or art lost its validity throughout this super thread.... Why do I think this? Read the thread. If the information was discussed factually, this thread would have never reached 607 or even 50 at that matter... Please dont misunderstand, I'm not say I'm against SD or personally attacking the style, but there was just too much attention placed on proving validity and lineage which should have not been the case.... Furthermore, a style or art is not valid due to one's association with another teacher or organization, so these type of conversations are just distractions and should be discussed seperately....

I've enjoyed reading this thread and its replies. Both sides brought very good conversations to the table. However, SD should have ceased the rebuttle or debate after placing their information, lineage, and origins out on the table.... Casual conversation thereafter concerning this information should have been the focus....

Anyway, its all good.... Everyone's happy and those who aren't, oh well.... The fact is this, nothing is going to change either way. Things are what they are...

Take care everyone...

CS

The point of this thread was never to prove or disprove the validity of SD. It was started by a troll (an alias from another forum member) to stir up crap and it morphed into something else. The majority of SD people don't really care about the discussions on this forum. This thread became the filter for 90% of discussions about SD. As you said, it really proved nothing and nothing is going to change either way.

Gene had merged several threads into this one so we wouldn't have 14 SD threads going at once. The fact that the thread contains smatterings of factual discussions and a whole heck of a lot of riff-raff shouldn't be seen to discredit SD. SD didn't start the thread and any participation of myself or members were for our own personal enjoyment and edification. It's nice to have a place to go and discuss whatever (much of it relevant but much of it isn't) but I don't see how the conglomerate composition of a super-thread cause a style to lose validity. If that were the case, then many threads that are started to discuss Praying mantis, CLF, Ng Family style, Wah Lum or whatever that get hijacked, de-railed or caught up in the petty personalities of some posters would serve to discredit the style itself. Frankly, internet forums aren't that important.

[sean_stonehart]

Frankly, internet forums aren't that important.

Some are... like this one. It gives me an outlet to take me away from the horrors of work.

[sanjuro_ronin]

FYI, less than 900 posts and this bad ass mofu reaches 10000 !!!

[MasterKiller]

Some are... like this one. It gives me an outlet to take me away from the horrors of work.

I would actually have to be a productive citizen making "the man" ever richer if it weren't for forums liek this.

[Judge Pen]

Internet forums are fun. I've learned a lot and met a lot of interesting people. But like they say, you can't believe everything you read on the internet. For every good and worthwhile person that posts there are 3 trolls.

[BM2]

I would actually have to be a productive citizen making "the man" ever richer if it weren't for forums liek this.

Whoa, MK finally made a typo

[MasterKiller]

I saw it, but in my MMA-is-the-quick-path-to-the-darkside mindset, I decided I'd rather be fast and sloppy.

[Citong Shifu]

The point of this thread was never to prove or disprove the validity of SD. It was started by a troll (an alias from another forum member) to stir up crap and it morphed into something else. The majority of SD people don't really care about the discussions on this forum. This thread became the filter for 90% of discussions about SD. As you said, it really proved nothing and nothing is going to change either way.

Gene had merged several threads into this one so we wouldn't have 14 SD threads going at once. The fact that the thread contains smatterings of factual discussions and a whole heck of a lot of riff-raff shouldn't be seen to discredit SD. SD didn't start the thread and any participation of myself or members were for our own personal enjoyment and edification. It's nice to have a place to go and discuss whatever (much of it relevant but much of it isn't) but I don't see how the conglomerate composition of a super-thread cause a style to lose validity. If that were the case, then many threads that are started to discuss Praying mantis, CLF, Ng Family style, Wah Lum or whatever that get hijacked, de-railed or caught up in the petty personalities of some posters would serve to discredit the style itself. Frankly, internet forums aren't that important.

I hear you JP.... My comments were made due to alot of the Q&A. It's not so much about the "super-thread", but more about others trying to convince the style and ST's legitimacy. For example; My style/school, we have had hundreds of people come and go over the last 20 plus years. Most quit due to it being too hard, to long to learn, just didn't like it, etc. Then we have the local school owners and their supporters. Now, out of all this time we have never been attacked like SD.... Of course, we get the occasional "wushu" label, lol, but that goes with the territory... Anyway, this is just my opinion. I didn't feel that this thread was productive for SD and ST... No school or teacher should have to try this hard to be accepted by the masses....

Hopefully this subject is done. You know, there's always that one person waiting for the right thing to be said or stated, then this thread will be off and running again, lol...

Short explanation; you guys should practice and support your art without this type of headache... I dont know, maybe I just dont care what people have to say about me, etc... I do know that I have plenty of time to practice and contribute to forums like this as a result of it...

One of these days I'm going to get down to good ole Kentucky and see what all the fuss is about, lol... I'm really interested in meeting with BQ and Bruce.. Who knows, maybe try a class or two, to see if you guys can make me puke, I believe someones offering a payday if they cant ....

Anyway, you guys take care.
CS

[Citong Shifu]

I saw it, but in my MMA-is-the-quick-path-to-the-darkside mindset, I decided I'd rather be fast and sloppy.

Fast and sloppy works, sometimes..... I dont care how good I look, as long as, I "WIN" .

[Judge Pen]

I hear you JP.... My comments were made due to alot of the Q&A. It's not so much about the "super-thread", but more about others trying to convince the style and ST's legitimacy. For example; My style/school, we have had hundreds of people come and go over the last 20 plus years. Most quit due to it being too hard, to long to learn, just didn't like it, etc. Then we have the local school owners and their supporters. Now, out of all this time we have never been attacked like SD.... Of course, we get the occasional "wushu" label, lol, but that goes with the territory... Anyway, this is just my opinion. I didn't feel that this thread was productive for SD and ST... No school or teacher should have to try this hard to be accepted by the masses....

I agree. The thing is Sin The or his senior students aren't here "trying". Heck, I'm not even trying to gain acceptance for SD, but since it is so often attacked, at least I can offer my own limited perspectives and understandings.

Hopefully this subject is done. You know, there's always that one person waiting for the right thing to be said or stated, then this thread will be off and running again, lol...

You don't know how many times I've hoped the thread would just wither on the vine. It's now a merry-go-round of epic proportions. But you're right someone else will spout off and things will start right back over again. Heck, this thread was started under that very circumstance. Its not like this is the first SD thread out there....

Short explanation; you guys should practice and support your art without this type of headache... I don’t know, maybe I just don’t care what people have to say about me, etc... I do know that I have plenty of time to practice and contribute to forums like this as a result of it...

I know that there have been students leave because they frequent forums like this and don't want the headache. I have a different perspective--the headache motivates me to be better. If my style is attacked, and I'm going to post my perspectives on the attacks, then I need to be able to practice what I preach. I wish I had more liberty to travel and meet up with more people. Whenever I travel I make a post looking for people in that area to see if we can meet up and exchange ideas. I think there are several criticism that are valid, but all I can control is how I approach my training and these criticisms are certainly eye-opening and motivating.

One of these days I'm going to get down to good ole Kentucky and see what all the fuss is about, lol... I'm really interested in meeting with BQ and Bruce.. Who knows, maybe try a class or two, to see if you guys can make me puke, I believe someones offering a payday if they cant ....

You should come to Knoxville too.

Anyway, you guys take care.
CS

My response is in bold above.

[Golden Tiger]

CS, if I may..... I don't think this thread was ever intended to prove or disprove the validity of GMST or SD. Some of those saw it as a chance to practice keyboard fu because the few SD students that were around here when the thread started were very passionate about their chosen art. People saw it as a good way to start a fuss. It happens on political forums all the time. Heck, I am even guilty of it. You get bored, read someones comments and start picking them apart. Helps pass the slow times at work.

As for us having to put up with the headache of the anti-SD pundits, it pretty much goes away when we log off this forum. I have been involved in SD for over 30 years and I can only think of 3 times when someone actually questioned the validity of SD in person. For some strange reason, people aren't as brave or confrontational when looking another in the eye. So this big debate only exists here. I considered myself a pretty good martial artist before I discovered this thread and anything I have read here hasn't changed that a bit.

I guess what I am getting at is that while this thread has grown beyond its bounds, I kind of enjoy it. I have met a lot of people on here, kept in touch with some former classmates and learn some things here and there. I for one, am glad it lives on.....and on...and on.......

[brucereiter]

For some strange reason, people aren't as brave or confrontational when looking another in the eye. So this big debate only exists here.

soooooo true.