Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[shen ku]

serene_dragon, there are others on here that were on the same trip as i was,and i saw one event one way and they now believe ( after leaving SD on their own, they were not kicked out from what i understand ) that it was meant in a hole different way, so you see ,as others have said , just like a form or a story all things even when seen at the same time may send each person away with a different opinion of the events and what was meant by each persons actions,

[Fred Sanford]

All I have to say about shaolin-do is that it is a very nice style of karate. I'm impressed, really I am.

[shen ku]

JP did you find anything on the nashville school

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fred Sanford
All I have to say about shaolin-do is that it is a very nice style of karate. I'm impressed, really I am.

Thanks Fred. I appreciate any compliment coming from you.

SK, not yet man. I've been swamped, but I'll get you something this week.

[Radhnoti]

I think that Dr. Davies' e-mail was very supportive of the idea that shaolin-do should be classified as kuntao...

Of course that's been a pet theory of mine, and I may be biased.

From a Willem De Thouars website:

"Kun Tao goes back to ancient China, so it is accurately a Chinese art, but both Chinese and indigenous people in Southeast Asia have practiced and adopted it as their own. And the old men who were trained in what they see as the "pure art" have seen it sanitized and changed; it literally doesn't exist in its original state in China anymore."

This is EXACTLY the attitude that's been passed down (in my opinion) in Shaolin-do. "We have the REAL stuff, no pointless but pretty junk!"
It's not a shaolin-do specific attitude, it's common in kuntao.

Also, to be fair, not all SD teachers seem to have inherited this attitude of superiority, but I've heard enough of them talk to know that MANY have.

Again, just my opinion...backed by a few years experience and research.

[serene_dragon]

SK
"A man looking for trouble is not much of a problem for someone who is ready for him"
If you know where you heard this statement then you know who I am. Give me a call when you read this

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by serene_dragon
Shen Ku

You went to China with GM Sin The'. Did you vistit any temples or Shaolin schools while you was there?

If you did there might be a few people reading this thread who are interested in knowing how the masters in the temples treated Grandmaster Sin The'. If they showed him respect as a Grandmaster or if they treated him like just another martial artist visiting the temples.

Out of curiosity, I went back and watched the meeting between Master Sin and the Head Abbot when the marker was placed. While most of the speaking was done by the guy from Chinese Tourism, there was a speech given by the head disiple written by the Abbot. It spoke of Shaolin being the birthplace of MA, how they wanted it to spread all over the world, yada yada yada...... The group and the monks exchanged a gift, Master Sin said a few words and that was it.

A couple of observations that I made were:

1. A large group was assembled to meet with and celebrate the placing of the marker (yes, paid for by the group).
2. The head Abbot, obviously not in the best of health due to Parkinson's (or it appeared to be that) was there along with a few of the senior monks.

So what comes to mind is this..... Master Sin and the "style" he promotes seemed not to pi$$ off those at the temple. He was treated with respect and was greeted by the ailing Head Abbot. I wonder if that is standard practice when other tourist show up? Sure, you could say that we "rented" a photo op with the HA but due to his health.....I am not sure.

It has also been said that the monks smiled while laughing under their breath at the demo our group did. That really wouldn't suprise me given the fact that it was made up of those that could afford the trip (ie. actually worked for a living and weren't professional MA's). What they didn't do is boo them off the floor for the so-so performance or the *******ization of CMA...one could argue respect or good manners.

So, "we" have visited the authority on Shaolin MA, didn't get shot at or arrested for what we did, what we claim or who we were, and are still going strong today.

I can live with that.......

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Out of curiosity, I went back and watched the meeting between Master Sin and the Head Abbot when the marker was placed. While most of the speaking was done by the guy from Chinese Tourism, there was a speech given by the head disiple written by the Abbot. It spoke of Shaolin being the birthplace of MA, how they wanted it to spread all over the world, yada yada yada...... The group and the monks exchanged a gift, Master Sin said a few words and that was it.

Yep... saw that video too. Saw the same things.

Originally posted by Golden Tiger

A couple of observations that I made were:

1. A large group was assembled to meet with and celebrate the placing of the marker (yes, paid for by the group).
2. The head Abbot, obviously not in the best of health due to Parkinson's (or it appeared to be that) was there along with a few of the senior monks.

1 -- Yep.
2 -- Yep.

Originally posted by Golden Tiger

So what comes to mind is this..... Master Sin and the "style" he promotes seemed not to pi$$ off those at the temple. He was treated with respect and was greeted by the ailing Head Abbot. I wonder if that is standard practice when other tourist show up? Sure, you could say that we "rented" a photo op with the HA but due to his health.....I am not sure.

Of course he was treated with respect. Most anybody is treated with respect when you drop $$$$ on a place like that. We had a Q&A session & photo op in 2001 with YongXin. Close to 90 Westerners coming in... dropping lots of $$$$ not once, but often. You get a little better than the normal Joe stopping in by the temple.

Originally posted by Golden Tiger

It has also been said that the monks smiled while laughing under their breath at the demo our group did. That really wouldn't suprise me given the fact that it was made up of those that could afford the trip (ie. actually worked for a living and weren't professional MA's). What they didn't do is boo them off the floor for the so-so performance or the *******ization of CMA...one could argue respect or good manners.

Yep... I would guess that they appreciated the effort put in by anybody to study MA, but good manners does go a long way in this world.

Originally posted by Golden Tiger

So, "we" have visited the authority on Shaolin MA, didn't get shot at or arrested for what we did, what we claim or who we were, and are still going strong today.

I can live with that.......

Well... there have been visits made to Shaolin, to Dengfeng, to Xiamen, to Chen Village, to Xian, to Wudang, etc... to be sure. Well documented & covered. There has been lots of speeches by gov't & local officials on how happy they were Master Sin & the groups were there. There have been lots of photo ops with all sorts of people at these locations, even coverage on Chinese National TV. I'm sure in the big picture the money brought in by Master Sin wouldn't be missed, but why **** off a continued source of income. They give a little face to Master Sin & everybody is happy. It just speaks of good manners. It also good economic practices on their parts.

I can live with that too...

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by shen ku
JP did you find anything on the nashville school

Here's what was sent to me from a friend who had saved the infromation from the old SDA site. It should still be current:

Nashville Shaolin-do

Donelson-Hermitage YMCA
3001 Lebanon Road
Nashville, TN 37214
(615) 889-2632

Head Instructor: Ernest McClain (2nd Degree Black Belt)
Assistant Instructors: Manuel J. Roman (1st Degree Black Belt), Bob Threadgill (1st Degree Black Belt), Russ Cameron (1st Degree Black Belt)

Classes held Tuesday & Thursday nights
Children - 6:15 to 7:30 pm
Adults - 7:30 to 8:30 pm

[wdl]

I'm pretty sure that's the right phone number, but I don't think he's at the Y out there anymore. I could however be wrong. I'm almost positive he's changed locations in the past year. For alittle while I don't think he had a location.

-Will

[shen ku]

JP thanks alot, its good to talk with others within SD and to know that others feel the same about their training again thanks

[MonkeySlap Too]

All of this is fine and good, but how do you explain how devoid of actual CMA usage Shaolin-Do is? Or how they do millions of 'styles' yet can't get the mechanics correct for any of them? Or the fact they do one-step sparring, fight like Karate guys, move like Karate guys, but do 'Chinese' forms.

It's okay to feel 'good' about yourselves and others who are 'in' the SD group. But it in no way validates SD as a CMA.

I'm sure Jim Jones's followers were sure they were just misunderstood by those pesky outsiders.

Of course, no one would really care if Sin The' didn't make such outrageous claims.

[themeecer]

All of this is fine and good, but how do you explain how devoid of actual CMA usage Shaolin-Do is? Or how they do millions of 'styles' yet can't get the mechanics correct for any of them? Or the fact they do one-step sparring, fight like Karate guys, move like Karate guys, but do 'Chinese' forms.

You know what .. I started a post detailing what I thought about your opinion and gave up on it. Apparently you find meaning in your life by belittling others and their art. If that makes you feel good, then wonderful. Thank you for the compliment of me doing millions of styles .. I'm really flattered. Kind of creeped out as well .... not sure how you found my school and was able to spy on my classes without me noticing you. Had you paid attention you would see that I personally don't focus on "millions" of styles, I focus on 2 and am incorporating a third one. I know what I study and teach. I have compared what I do to old clips of masters (with your oh so coveted printed lineage) and found it exactly the way I was taught and teach as well. I must have stumbled onto the mechanics somehow because contrary to what you say my mechanics have been tested and proved to be more than adequate. Bah … not a big fan of this web fu crap. Carry on.

Edit: And right now I am much more ticked at the pizza line coward video I saw, than with you SD detractors.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Hey, sorry your feelings are hurt. I'm not out to 'belittle' anybody. I'm just calling it as I see it. I've 'tasted' SD first hand. It's not CMA. It's not even very good. Just my opinion, but hey, it's an educated one. There hasn't been one good defense of Sin The's claims, or an example of 'good' SD (even that clip of Sin looked exactly like the Atlanta folks everyone in SD turned on.)

Remember, idiot testing does not count when validating an art.

I wouldn't really care, but you guys are lieing the public claiming these 'styles' when in fact you do Karate. Heck, if you called in 'Syncretic Indonesian Karate-Kun Tao' I wouldn't care. But calling it the 'true' Shaolin, and claiming Xing-yi, etc.etc. when honestly, the Xing-yi is hilarious, you've got to question what you are doing. If not in content, at least in ethics.

[Brad]

Doing something poorly doesn't automatically make it "karate".