Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[kungfujunky]

serious? i believe that is my test date but if at all possible id like to meet up.

i believe i still have your number so ill give you a call when we get closer to that day.

lmk if thats cool with you

[Shaolin Wookie]

I know a couple of guys that I trained with that are now training with the CSC. Both are excellent martial artists. One is very happy with the training. The other isn't and one of the things the second one complained to me about was the "extension" issue. He was showing me some examples from short form that, to me, show a misunderstanding of the maxim "don't lock the elbow for fear of injury".

I've noticed this, too. I call it SD-itis....LOL. My Longfist teacher taught full extension, and some SD people taught no-extension. They're both extremes of wrong ideas. You have to go to almost full extension, because you have to follow-through with every technique and punch through the target. Plus, some of the forms, especially Jingang Fu Hu Quan, employ grabbing techniques, and you have to reach or you'll literally never reach your target.

SD-itis perturbs me to no end.....

I don't think it's taught, so much as people "contract" it from bad demos in-class.

The thing to remember is----your hand isn't the begginning and end of the technique. Your entire arm is. Think of Jingang/Fei Hu chu tung's downward swipes as both strikes and line-clearing motions. Use your entire arm to clear what's in your path, not just the hands and wrist.

[Shaolin Wookie]

i do understand the need to extend enough for power generation.

in my 1 step training and sparring i have never heard someone complain i wasnt hitting them hard enough lol

i think this is more a matter of each persons physical makeup. for me i generate a lot of power with the way i punch and strike. i have broken boards with the types of strikes i use without pushing through the board.

i have worked a lot on the principles of snap and power and i believe i do it the way my body dictates.

the motions on the forms are just motions done slowly. it is entirely possible i need to focus on expanding those motions more during my practice of them.

I am all about trying to get better. My size is a bit misleading as i am very fast and flexible. but my size also might give the impression i am not fully striking out as well.

so i will do some more vids this weekend to try and better show exactly how i do this in real speed.

thx for the input everyone!

i cant wait until i get to cross hands and train with some of you.

Just remember, though, that some motions aren't about speed and snap, but about pulling power (takedown drags), pushing power (especially in tai peng and se meng) and ripping power. Don't conflate the "hyperextension" rule. Wushu guys do straight arm techniques and don't have hyperextension issues. Granted, they don't hit things much, but still.....you get the point. A guy your size would get massive power with more extension.

My expeirence is, your body will tell you when enough is enough, and you'll rarely go beyond what's necessary. But it looks like you pull your techniques prematurely.

When I say bigger motions---bigger circles, longer strikes, etc. Practice them big, apply them small.

[Shaolin Wookie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2UVMjy73qs

Another Jeet Kuen vid online. Clearly the link to our Chie Chien. If Jeet Kuen is explicitly Ying Jow Pai, as I think it is, that's one more style added to the Brown Belt regime--Eagle Claw. The Tiger-style label our Chie Quan has been under is misleading.

I'm betting the source of our MA, being SD, was something like Ching Woo. Granted, not Ching Woo itself, so much as a conglomeration of specialists teaching random things. It's a Bizarre mix presented confusingly by the SD cirriculum. Just look at the basics:

Jeet Kuen-----Eagle Claw
Hai Lung chong---monkey-style staff routine. There are a ****load of monkey techniques in this form. I can literally dress it up and perform it in "monkey" style and you wouldn't bat an eye. You'd see it immediately. We just don't teach it very "showy".
Jingang------some kind of "mountain tiger"
Tai Chi 64----a Taiwanese import of Cheng Man Ching
Tai Peng----an obviously rare style, but one very important to the identity of the original school.....since Hiang specializes in it.
Lian Wu Zhang---the only other parallel to it on the net is TAiwanese (google Su Ke Gang "Kung Fu in the Park"). Some commonalities, but different forms entirely.
San He---southern tension exercises reminiscent of Hakka/ crane stuff.
Short Forms---the foundation of all our techniques, but classic Longfist. Our most karate-like forms, and Longfist's most karate-likee forms as well.
Lohan Quan----some kind of mantis, but who knows what. Definately not Lohan, though.
Ippons---kung fu movements, but presented in Japanese form.



Nevertheless, our crane is very different from the common white crane forms, and our two beginning tigers are unique. The black tiger is comparable to other black tiger demos, excepting the crappy modern shaolin version, which completely sucks....LOL......

I've got a clip of Jingang to upload. It's pretty decent. Hopefully it'll redeem the form after the Dancing Queen video on youtube ruined it...LOL. I can't open it on my computer yet....technical difficulties trying to copy from a digital recorder. I'll post it in a week or two when I have time to mess around with it. Due to my new job's steady hours and overtime, I can get off this seven day schedule I've been working for five years and get my weekends and holidays back....LOL. FREEDOM!!!!

[brucereiter]

serious? i believe that is my test date but if at all possible id like to meet up.

i believe i still have your number so ill give you a call when we get closer to that day.

lmk if thats cool with you

good luck on your test ... give me a call ...

[Shaolin Wookie]

Here's the shoulder motion I think the CSC's tiger is trying to get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRlcWwbdP2s

Grandaddy's a little old, so it's not as fluid, but I think the shoulder roll is what's important. The hands just tend to follow the shoulder. How much you want to wave your hands seems inconsequential, IMO. But I kind of roll them with the shoulders and chamber. That's all that seems important.

[MasterKiller]

Here's the shoulder motion I think the CSC's tiger is trying to get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRlcWwbdP2s

Grandaddy's a little old, so it's not as fluid, but I think the shoulder roll is what's important. The hands just tend to follow the shoulder. How much you want to wave your hands seems inconsequential, IMO. But I kind of roll them with the shoulders and chamber. That's all that seems important.

Shoulder rolling like that in forms is usually "jing" training.

[TenTigers]

jeet kuen isn't Ying Jow P'ai, it is a Jing Mo set , but Lau Fat-Man taught at Jing-Mo, so the forms were incorperated into Ying Jow P'ai.

[bodhi warrior]

[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;869879]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2UVMjy73qs

Another Jeet Kuen vid online. Clearly the link to our Chie Chien. If Jeet Kuen is explicitly Ying Jow Pai, as I think it is, that's one more style added to the Brown Belt regime--Eagle Claw. The Tiger-style label our Chie Quan has been under is misleading.

This form shows alot of similarities to our chie chien.

[mkriii]

Shoulder rolling like that in forms is usually "jing" training.

Are you referring to fa jing as in explosive energy?

[Leto]

Here's the shoulder motion I think the CSC's tiger is trying to get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRlcWwbdP2s

Grandaddy's a little old, so it's not as fluid, but I think the shoulder roll is what's important. The hands just tend to follow the shoulder. How much you want to wave your hands seems inconsequential, IMO. But I kind of roll them with the shoulders and chamber. That's all that seems important.

That is more reminiscent of the black tiger forms than anything I've seen so far. most of the videos out there are shaolin or wudang wushu performance tiger forms.

[Shaolin Wookie]

jeet kuen isn't Ying Jow P'ai, it is a Jing Mo set , but Lau Fat-Man taught at Jing-Mo, so the forms were incorperated into Ying Jow P'ai.

Thanks. I couldn't find any info on it before except as a set list of eagle claw.

[Shaolin Wookie]

[QUOTE=bodhi warrior;869982]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2UVMjy73qs

Another Jeet Kuen vid online. Clearly the link to our Chie Chien. If Jeet Kuen is explicitly Ying Jow Pai, as I think it is, that's one more style added to the Brown Belt regime--Eagle Claw. The Tiger-style label our Chie Quan has been under is misleading.

This form shows alot of similarities to our chie chien.

Yeah, especially when Jeet Kuen's alternate name is Chie Quan or Che Quan. I don't know much chinese. I assume it's a dialect difference, maybe mandarin/cantonese, or something.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Are you referring to fa jing as in explosive energy?

No. He's talking about the "jing" which is the expressed or mobilized internal power of chi---which is just an energy source/reserve. In essence, it's like a motor that distributes the energy of the fuel tank's potential. But it's not that explosive power. Chi won't circulate by itself, necessarily.

[Shaolin Wookie]

most of the videos out there are shaolin or wudang wushu performance tiger forms.

And they suck ass, too. Shaolin's contemporary stuff is some of the worst martial arts I've ever seen. I'd seriously rather watch a TKD tournament forms competition than watch another modern shaolin demo.

I swear, you pose, you flip, you pose, you flip, you pose, a butterfly twist into a pose............... I'm sure it's very hard, but it's incredibly boring.

I always liked that wudang tiger form that's out there by the dude with the headband and the robes. I like his form. He also demos a dragon form.