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Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.
Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.
Registered User
Not to jump on any kind of bandwagon here...but I think Fu-Pow was right on with his critique.
Adam Hsu makes similar points in some of his stuff I've read, and (if I recall correctly) he too says that even though he learned different styles at the same time he won't do the same with his students.
Keep it simple, stupid.
Daper Dan Man
Fu hit the nail on the head.
And Sean, I know what you are saying. I'm afraid that some people don't want the scrutiny.
Originally Posted by Oso
Sorry to bring down the harshers on you guys.
It's not just Shaolin Do! There are many students of martial arts (some on this board) who jump around from style to style, never fully learning any one style.
The difference is that Shaolin Do has institutionalized this kind of learning and so becomes an easy target.
Here's the thing guys....the "viscious cycle" that I describe can end with YOU.
You SD guys could pick one (or two) style(s) that you are most interested in learning from what you've already learned.
Find out who the best teachers are and focus on becoming an expert in that one style.
If you are in an area that is lacking in teachers you might look at traveling and/or attending seminars that are in your area. I know of at least a few students that have become disciples that live nowhere near there teachers.
They learned by visiting and attending seminars and then visiting infrequently for corrections and such.
I'm not saying give up SD completely. If that's the best thing in your area then stick with it for the mean time.
But your goal should be to exceed your current teacher's knowledge in any ONE of the smattering of arts that you are currently learning.
Peace guys.
Registered User
It's not exactly institutionalized because everyone is encouraged to specialize in something, generally speaking around here atleast(can't speak for other SD areas). Mostly once they've hit first black(about 3.5 years in).
I plan to do something similiar to what you describe. Once I decide what I like and what I want to focus on, I want to expose myself to as many different opinions on the subject as possible and deeply study and analyze it. Visiting, seminars, crossings hands, etc are all part of what I want to do.
-Will
Eternal Student
I know... I've been avoiding acknowledging it...Fu hit the nail on the head.
Message: Due to the ongoing Recession, God has decided the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off due to power costs. That is all.
Daper Dan Man
I do intend to do that with my SD background. Some SD people routinely focus their training and work with other MAs in the areas that they are interested in so they get a new perspective on thier forms and training. It's always good to get out there and learn with other people. WDL is correct. My teacher has no problem with me meeting other teachers and learning from them.
Ten characters
Nice moves. Really.
The question to ask: is there any point in 'specializing' in any of the 'styles' taught at SD, since adimittdly, they are not taught by people who actually know and practice the style.
It just doesn't make any sense. Honestly, other than for folks living in a swordsman novel fantasy, I don't see anything in the SD literature to reccomend it for serious training. It would seem you would learn more bad habits that good habits. And if you are required to go outside the school to go 'deeper' into the subject - doesn't that seem like a warning right there? It's one thing to seek out other teachers of the same thing. It's another to seek out instructors to find what your missing, when your 'grandmaster' proclaims he has the true source of complete knowlege. (and we have seen from video clips that he moves EXACTLY like the other SD clips we have seen.0
Just food for thought. I'd be more interested in talking about the 'short forms.' Would anyone mind describing them how they are practised, etc.?
"Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake."
--- Napoleon
"MonkeySlap is a brutal b@stard." -- SevenStar
"Forgive them Lord, they know not what MS2 can do." -- MasterKiller
"You're not gonna win a debate (or a fight) with MST. Resistance is futile." - Seven Star
Daper Dan Man
I know the website and some articles say he is the grandmaster of All shaolin, 900 forms etc. I also know that his specialty is Golden Snake. I've never seen him do his specialty. I don't know if anyone has (if they have, they're not telline). It's possible that the way he moves is influenced by what his specialty is reported to be and that has trickled down into all of his forms. (And by move; I'm not talking about swimming with your pecs). So, maybe if someone wanted to specialize in Golden Snake this would be the place to go if he ever teaches any of his specialty out. Since he hasn't, it's a moot point.
Assuming, for arguments sake, that I wanted to specialize by seeking out another teacher. I like Hsing I, Hua (but I can't do it right), Pa Kua etc. I don't know of a teacher in my area that specialized in this. Knoxville is not the mecca of chinese martial arts. I have Pong Lai 3 hours in either direction and CLF 3 hours south. There's a wushu teacher in knoxville teaching BaGua and Chen Tai Chi. There's Wah Lum. And there's SD. Of the local choices, SD is preferrable to me. If I moved elsewhere where more local options were convenient, then I might decide to empty my cup and try something new.
Fact is, I really enjoy my training. We train hard, spar often, and have fun. I feel confident in my ability to defend myself (whether or not what I'm learning is the undiluted real whatever).
Daper Dan Man
Short forms:
I have a very nice analysis of short forms at home. When I can, I'll post it here. Basically, They start from a low bo stance. They introduce basic blocks, kicks, punches, sweeps and throws.
The first short form is done in a low bo stance with either you right or left leg forward (we learn both sides) and your opposite hand extended in a fist. While your back hand punches your front hand blocks up and then clears to the side in a head block: the intent is to misdirect and stick to the incoming technique pulling it to the side while opening the door on your opponent for your hand technique while turning your front hip into the attack. All this is done at the same time. The first short form concludes by "blocking down" where both hands curl down with your fist palms facing you and the elbows and forearms covering the body. The point of the elbow can de driven into a foot, leg, arm etc for the block or the techniqe and be used for a type of arm break/arm bar etc. Very simple techniques with alternate applciations. The bo stance is used to build strength and balance while practicing the technique and the application can be done from any stance since you are dealing with basic principles. In fact one of the applications is to start the technique standing up and pull back into the bo using the step to provide leverage and pull your opponent into the technique while using their forward momentum. Throws can be introduced in this way.
This is the first short form taught in SD. We have 30 and the complexity and footwork builds gradually from there.
Last edited by Judge Pen; 03-02-2005 at 12:14 PM.
Golden Alligator Master
Some of us don't need someone to hold our hand and wipe our noses for us every step of the way. The secrets of the forms are hidden within the forms. Just because you can't do something, it doesn't mean that others can't. Take a person thrown on a deserted island who had one form to master. (And assuming that there are willing participants to practice on) Go back 20 years later and see how he fares. By your assumptions he wouldn't be able to master the form because he didn't have someone to hold his hand the entire time. That is just not true, in my opinion. Heck, think of the people who invented these systems ... they didn't have anyone to walk them through every little baby step, and yet look at what they created.
themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
-shaolinarab
(Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)
Loud City
If that person is shown the form incorrectly before they are stranded, what are the chances they'll figure out the incorrect parts and fix it themselves, especially if they have no other frame of reference with which to compare the form?
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
Golden Alligator Master
Who is to say they are taught incorrectly? And if they have someone to practice on, the incorrect parts would show themselves.
themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
-shaolinarab
(Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)
Your example is lacking. Kung Fu doesn't exist in a vacuum like that. Although we like to think that our art came from some Taoist sage living on a hill somewhere Kung Fu is actually a very collaborative art.
Like everything in life "Kung Fu" is composed of Buddha (I), Sangha (We) and Dharma (It(s)).
In martial arts terms....its one part the individual physical work/thought/spirit that you put in, one part the kung fu culture that you immerse yourself in and one part the actual physical path/content/training methods, etc of the style.
I believe you need all of those to reach your potential as a martial artist.
Last edited by Fu-Pow; 03-02-2005 at 01:15 PM.
Loud City
A) Well, MonkeySlap, for one.
B) You implied the person was left to practice alone, did you not? So how do the kinks get worked out then?
He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman
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