Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

While I am at it, it used to be that anyone under 16 had a white stripe down the middle of their brown or black belt to illustrate that they were a junior brown or black belt. While they may be able to demostrate all the required material, they were imature for that rank. I don't think that a junior black belt should be able to wear a black gi. To me it cheapns the rank.

We still have a junior black designation at our school. They can wear black though.

[The Willow Sword]

I knew what SD was and I had not really been so gung ho about being a follower of the rhetoric and the claims and statements made by the organization. I knew that it wasn’t traditional CMA and I knew that certain aspects of the history were questionable. But what I did like and admire about Sd was the atmosphere there and the curriculum itself,,it actually was very conducive to the everyday average joe and jane who wanted to take a martial art,,learn self defense and not have to deal with a drill instructor environment or be in these reality fighting schools that most folks would not go to anyway. So the sell point at SD was done well and the atmosphere there was decent. What finally clinched it for me as to the history of SD and its claims was the research I finally did when I left the school.
This information focused on the “hairy grandmanster,,which they name (Su Kong) My research turned up another Picture of “Su kong” whose name is actually ”li Baoshu” who was part of the bejing circus in the 1930’s and the picture that everyone sees of Li baoshu in the suit and tie was taken and put in an old guiness book of world records featuring “circus freak shows”(in this book it is a full body shot)the picture that is shown to everyone now and that has been for years is just a head shot(edited of course). This book was found at a public library in louisville kentucky and shown to my previous teacher back in the early 80’s(it was an old book from the late 60’s and for some reason is no longer at the library in Louisville Kentucky). It has been debated here and the Sd’ers will dismiss it as just a similarity and not another picture of their “great grandmaster”. But in fact the persons in the two pictures I have are the same person( now there are some other pictures of people with the same disorder that Li baoshu had that look similar only with respect to the disorder,,but are obviously different people,,it is NOT the case with the pics that I have.) I wish I could find that book and then the evidence would be concrete and could not be downplayed or argued as something other than what it is(ironic eh?)

Anyway we have beat the dead horse in to something else now,,the gelatin mass that once was a dead horse is now pureed in to something else other than a dead horse,,yet we continue to beat it as if it were top news. Hahaha and the rest of us roll our eyes and think “ oh boy here we go again”.

Peace,,TWS

[Judge Pen]

I'm not going to disagree with you TWS, but here's my question: why can't you or someone else find that picture elsewhere? Surely other libraries have it other than Louisville Kentucky. If so, I'd like to see it. I've seen other pictures of li Baoshi and while they are similar (as similar as any other Chinese man with that disorder) they were not conclusive. You may be right but if the excat picture exists (but a full body shot) I'd love to see it.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Well, sometimes trying to explain it better works, or the point just hasn't been addressed.

JP - Ah, we just pick on Doctors, Lawyers, and such because everyone has experience with at leat one wacky one. No offense... but I dated a lawyer for a long time, and after her, I probably have the greatest reserve of lawyer jokes in history (starting with her). So, um, be forewarned...

Do you know why there are no marketing guy jokes? .... hey, you hired us...

[Judge Pen]

JP - Ah, we just pick on Doctors, Lawyers, and such because everyone has experience with at leat one wacky one. No offense... but I dated a lawyer for a long time, and after her, I probably have the greatest reserve of lawyer jokes in history (starting with her). So, um, be forewarned...

You'll be hard pressed to tell me a lawyer joke I haven't heard.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Finally, a challenge I'm equipped to accept!

[The Willow Sword]

Here are the pics for all to compare and debate till your hearts content. One is of "Su kong who is really li baoshu all clean cut and wearing a suit with hair brushed and such" it is this pic that was taken from the book i mentioned in my above post and used. ( it is tough to challenge it since pics like these are very rare and out of print books that dissapear from the louisville library helps to support their argument of specualtion).

and the other is the Wild lion looking li baoshu, as he was displayed in the bejing zoo, circa 1930's. this pic was taken from the net actually on a site that was dedicated to studying people in china with long hair and odd disorders.



Hey its up to the individual to decide about what is what in terms of legitamacy of historical events. Most of us say they are fabricated with regards to SD's history,,,and alot of other references to history in china will concur and show the timeline disputes and such.
So if you go on the premise based on what evidence HAS been given about the history of Sd and you conclude therefore that the history was fabricated,,it leaves one to wonder WHAT ELSE is fabricated at the school IE: forms and such.

Peace,,TWS

[sean_stonehart]

Here are the pics for all to compare and debate till your hearts content. One is of "Su kong who is really li baoshu all clean cut and wearing a suit with hair brushed and such" it is this pic that was taken from the book i mentioned in my above post and used. ( it is tough to challenge it since pics like these are very rare and out of print books that dissapear from the louisville library helps to support their argument of specualtion).

and the other is the Wild lion looking li baoshu, as he was displayed in the bejing zoo, circa 1930's. this pic was taken from the net actually on a site that was dedicated to studying people in china with long hair and odd disorders.



Hey its up to the individual to decide about what is what in terms of legitamacy of historical events. Most of us say they are fabricated with regards to SD's history,,,and alot of other references to history in china will concur and show the timeline disputes and such.
So if you go on the premise based on what evidence HAS been given about the history of Sd and you conclude therefore that the history was fabricated,,it leaves one to wonder WHAT ELSE is fabricated at the school IE: forms and such.

Peace,,TWS

Interesting ...

[SDJerry]

There have been several points stated that bear merit.
MST, it would be easier to read your posts if you didn't repeat the same views in each of them. I found myself passing over your posts due to repeation. Getting someone to view your opinion differently will not be accomplished through multiple posting of the same opinions. This is something that I am also guilty of doing.
By making constructive criticisms, several forum members of other styles have brought forth opinions shared by myself concerning SD.
While painful to admit, rank advancement seems to be more important then being able to do it correctly. When I read that some schools have black belts with 1.5 years or less in, it screams that something is very wrong.
While I am at it, it used to be that anyone under 16 had a white stripe down the middle of their brown or black belt to illustrate that they were a junior brown or black belt. While they may be able to demostrate all the required material, they were immature for that rank. I don't think that a junior black belt should be able to wear a black gi. To me it cheapns the rank.

I have been studying SD for 5 years... I am still not a blackbelt

In our school there is no way you could possibly obtain black in a year and a half. Its a mandantory 3 months wait between belts up to your brown belt. Thats from white, to yellow, to blue, to green, and then to brown. So you tie up a year just getting to your brown belt. There are 3 degrees of brown and the wait changes to six months once you obtain your brown belt. So that would take you a year and a half just to get through your brown belt.

At my school there is never any pressure to test and if they think you are not ready then you will not test. They also go out of their way to explain application but encourage you to also find your own. They really just kinda give you ideas to get you thinking on you're own ways to use them.

[wdl]

How come if I google search for "li Baoshi" I only get 4 unique hits? None of them really related a hairy person? Is it spelled wrong?

-Will

[BM2]

SDJerry,
As you already are aware some schools are very different. I think it is somewhere on this thread that a SD student said that there were BB at his school with less than a year and a half in.
TWS,
While it is difficult to say for certain since the facial features are obscured, I don't think they look alike.

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, we could debate the two pictures endlessly. While I sense some conspiracy theory afloat with the missing Guniess Book from Louisville (it must be true since that book is gone) Surely someone else from a place where SD doesn't have a toe hold could go to the Library and find the book. That's the best evidence to what you are saying.

BM2, aren't you in Lousiville? Admit it, you stole the book with the picture. Fess up.

[Golden Tiger]

While searching the local library I came across the formula for cold fusion. Once I realised what it was, I returned and it was gone.....the humanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MonkeySlap Too]

And my evil reptile overlords in the Carlisle group will never let you have it back!

[wdl]

TWS's dude looks more like the dude that Kansas used on a 1995 album cover for Freaks of Nature:

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-102250/rev...of_nature.html

I had that album before I joined SD. I saw Su Kong's pic and did a double take. Like TWS's picture it's not very clear and it's hard to tell if it's the same person without a giving him/her/it a good shave anyway. But I think the pic Kansas used favors the guy TWS is talking about more than Su Kong.

My question is still not answered, if he was published, why can't I find specific information about him online?


-Will