Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Facepalm]

So Elder Master David sometimes talks about the China trips that they take with students every few years.

He will often say that a student will ask him:

"omg what if the plane that you GMSKT and EMSS and the rest of the high level students from CSC crashes, omg wont the art be lost"

Then he goes on to talk about how GMSKTs is focused on preservation of the art first and foremost without even giving any mention to the existence of the whole east coast shaolin-do organization or their elder masters (i.e his contemporaries in the art)

I mean I know these peoples names for crying out loud but I feel it would be rude to raise my hand and ask him about this infront of the class.

Did the Soards have a falling out with them, or what, or is he just trying to make himself seem more special to the students, or do I really not want to know the answer to this question.

[tattooedmonk]

So Elder Master David sometimes talks about the China trips that they take with students every few years.

He will often say that a student will ask him:

"omg what if the plane that you GMSKT and EMSS and the rest of the high level students from CSC crashes, omg wont the art be lost"

Then he goes on to talk about how GMSKTs is focused on preservation of the art first and foremost without even giving any mention to the existence of the whole east coast shaolin-do organization or their elder masters (i.e his contemporaries in the art)

I mean I know these peoples names for crying out loud but I feel it would be rude to raise my hand and ask him about this infront of the class.

Did the Soards have a falling out with them, or what, or is he just trying to make himself seem more special to the students, or do I really not want to know the answer to this question.

Yes, they did have a falling out , yes ,he is making himself seem more special and yes, you do not want to know.

[kwaichang]

Its all a big rotten Political Mess. Reminds me of other styles and systems of the past it really SUCKS, people who dont care about the art are in charge and its all a vieing for power and position KC

[OldandUsed]

That is true and it is one of the major reasons I left after being in the SD for quite a while. I remember the John Fernandez deal and thought it was pretty bad. Little did I know that the same scenario would play out several more times before I had enough. The funny/sad thing is that some of the worst offendors are the ones that preach honor and respect and the martial way. Hmmmm.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I would hope that once the people with issues/schism-hangups are out of the picture, the art would come together again. The material between SD and ST isn't that different. Some different interpretations of movements, some cosmetic changes--but it's the same stuff, built on the same principles.

I wonder why martial arts in general are so privy to lineage quarrels and general squabbles anyways.........

It's like a friggin' soap opera.

I get the feeling, though, it'll become more schismatic. W/O GM The' certifying the black belts himself, it'll be up to individual masters to do that, unless there's another open-minded dude like GM The' that takes over and is willing to travel/test students with slightly different forms. I imagine that with school/branch rifts as they are, some masters will be spitting fire. Not all. There are a lot of cool masters from other branches out there. But some might.

With all the criticism out there about SD, I find--quite ironically--that the meanest, most conniving critics are actual SD practitioners. Just look on Youtube, and read SD comments. Or read comments by SD dudes here on video performances. Most people who share the practices of an art they have a passion for by posting vids get ripped apart by SD practitioners.

There's rarely a ===
"Good job. Keep up the practice."

It's almost always===

"Dude, you have no understanding of your material. You need to practice before you try to represent the art. You don't deserve your belt." OR some **** like that.

I find that very, very, very sad. Where's the love?

People hide behind their own hangups, cast invective against those without hangups, and inevitably destroy any sense of community there could be between branches, etc.

So sad.

[Baqualin]

Old & used, Golden Tiger, OTD, BQ (if I left any old timers out sorry) are the only ones that participate on this forum that really know what has happened down through the years and what's going on now. We were all here before David & Sharon and most of the rest. Nothing is going to change and will only get worse after GMS passes on....best thing to do is get the most out of your training and forget the political BS....there's nothing anyone can do about it now. GMS has tried to keep things standardized from the beginning including the name....it didn't happen....everyone wants to go out and do their own thing (only a small part of what has happened) and it has gotten to big to control. The only ones who suffer are the students. Things to keep in mind, most of the Main Masters east & west (including David & Sharon) were students of GMS & the elder masters of the east..... they were taught here in Lexington. The other.....GM Sin knows who his most loyal students are and they benefit from it....straight from his mouth not hearsay..
Best

JUST KEEP TRAINING AND LEARN ALL YOU CAN....FUK THE REST

[Baqualin]

I would hope that once the people with issues/schism-hangups are out of the picture, the art would come together again. The material between SD and ST isn't that different. Some different interpretations of movements, some cosmetic changes--but it's the same stuff, built on the same principles.

well said...if their following those principals

I wonder why martial arts in general are so privy to lineage quarrels and general squabbles anyways.........

It's like a friggin' soap opera.

I get the feeling, though, it'll become more schismatic. W/O GM The' certifying the black belts himself, it'll be up to individual masters to do that, unless there's another open-minded dude like GM The' that takes over and is willing to travel/test students with slightly different forms. I imagine that with school/branch rifts as they are, some masters will be spitting fire. Not all. There are a lot of cool masters from other branches out there. But some might.

With all the criticism out there about SD, I find--quite ironically--that the meanest, most conniving critics are actual SD practitioners. Just look on Youtube, and read SD comments. Or read comments by SD dudes here on video performances. Most people who share the practices of an art they have a passion for by posting vids get ripped apart by SD practitioners.

True to an extent....but when I see someone in our lineage ( On the master level) doing a form such as our first Pa kua and their not displaying the basic principals of that style....I will say so.

There's rarely a ===
"Good job. Keep up the practice."

JP's videos have always gotten praise....even from outsiders

It's almost always===

"Dude, you have no understanding of your material. You need to practice before you try to represent the art. You don't deserve your belt." OR some **** like that.

Haven't really seen that on here...maybe on Utube....but really, the majority of the students AT ANY SCHOOL aren't very good and the really good ones don't post anywhere...their too busy working out

I find that very, very, very sad. Where's the love?

I totally agree with you here...instead of cutting them down they should send them a personal message and tell them to pull the video till they can do it the proper way....offer help of course

People hide behind their own hangups, cast invective against those without hangups, and inevitably destroy any sense of community there could be between branches, etc.

So sad.

very sad!! egos will do that to you

[OldandUsed]

I agree with that. The martial arts are supposed to be something for personal development and protection. Not to stroke an ego. It has been my unfortunate experience that way too much ego is demonstrated by many of the "masters" in the system. While I freely admit to personality conflicts and philosophical differences with some of the first 108, I will always hold SD as my primary art and I love the benfit I received from it. I try to pass on the best and allow the student to make their own mind up on how they will use it. I consider it personal as you practice it to the point that you can make it a part of you. Regardless of whether you stay in the "club" or not, it is still yours.

GMS gave those of us that got our BB from 1-108 his Shaolin hero patch. This was supposed to be after the 108 primary forms of the temple.

[tattooedmonk]

would you say from an unbiased perspective that there is ego coming from all sides and not just oneside over the others???

I have seen alot of disloyalty, disrespect and dishonor from many of the instructors.

I see that in alot of ways things have become too rigid and in others too flexible.

[tattooedmonk]

Old & used, Golden Tiger, OTD, BQ (if I left any old timers out sorry) are the only ones that participate on this forum that really know what has happened down through the years and what's going on now. We were all here before David & Sharon and most of the rest. Nothing is going to change and will only get worse after GMS passes on....best thing to do is get the most out of your training and forget the political BS....there's nothing anyone can do about it now. GMS has tried to keep things standardized from the beginning including the name....it didn't happen....everyone wants to go out and do their own thing (only a small part of what has happened) and it has gotten to big to control. The only ones who suffer are the students. Things to keep in mind, most of the Main Masters east & west (including David & Sharon) were students of GMS & the elder masters of the east..... they were taught here in Lexington. The other.....GM Sin knows who his most loyal students are and they benefit from it....straight from his mouth not hearsay..
Best

JUST KEEP TRAINING AND LEARN ALL YOU CAN....FUK THE REST

From what I know about the situation, this is correct.

Individual school names is ok in my opinion, what do you think?

I believe the art speaks for itself, a name is just a name.

SD/ ST is the same thing. This is just symantics and really is non intrinsic to the art.

The art has to evolve to become valid in this day and age.

It seems that some changes like the name ST instead of SD, changing the uniforms to a chinese version, etc. can benefit the art.

As you can see among the schools run by Master Nance, Master Mullins and Master Grooms it has.

I understand the loyalty, honor and respect to the traditions passed on by Ie Chang Ming and Master Sin but, if it wasnt alright with Master Sin why would he approve of these changes?? And why should anyone else be upsetabout these changes?

Change is a part of life.........

[OldandUsed]

Absolutely!

[kwaichang]

It is when these changes get in the way of the sytem and training itself that it is a problem. For ex: you cant train here unless you wear this uniform, or you cant teach in this state because you cant or dont train with this instructor. If you do this form different in say Georgia than in Nevada you cant teach. How will i MAKE MONEY FROM YOUR SCHOOL IF YOU PAY HOMAGE TO LEXINGTON AND WANT TO TEACH IN SAY GEORGIA. THIS IS WHERE THE CHANGE AS IT IS CALLED IS NOT A GOOD THING. THERE ARE THOSE THAT HAVE TRAINED IN MANY AREAS AND WANT TO TRAIN BUT CANT OPEN A SCHOOL OR TRAIN WITH THE PEOPLE 1 -2 MILES FROM THEIR HOUSE DUE TO THE CR@@ or disagreements this splits the system itself. I cant train with a guy I have known for 10 years because an EM doesnt want me to . This has nothing to do with the Shaolin or MA ethic at all. More a lack of ethic Sorry for the caps. KC

[Baqualin]

would you say from an unbiased perspective that there is ego coming from all sides and not just oneside over the others???

I have seen alot of disloyalty, disrespect and dishonor from many of the instructors.

I see that in alot of ways things have become too rigid and in others too flexible.

yes..............................

[Baqualin]

From what I know about the situation, this is correct.

Individual school names is ok in my opinion, what do you think?

I believe the art speaks for itself, a name is just a name.

SD/ ST is the same thing. This is just symantics and really is non intrinsic to the art.

The art has to evolve to become valid in this day and age.

It seems that some changes like the name ST instead of SD, changing the uniforms to a chinese version, etc. can benefit the art.

As you can see among the schools run by Master Nance, Master Mullins and Master Grooms it has.

I understand the loyalty, honor and respect to the traditions passed on by Ie Chang Ming and Master Sin but, if it wasnt alright with Master Sin why would he approve of these changes?? And why should anyone else be upsetabout these changes?

Change is a part of life.........

If you've ever been a parent of multiple children........sometimes after they cry, complain, make excuses, throw fits....you finally say fuk it and let them have their way. This part has been all about marketing...not what GMS wants...it's his art not mine.....personally I don't like silk pajamas.....I only teach Internal so I do wear a sam....it's heavy cotton not silk and I wear my original uniform just as much....I like the way it feels......he went for the sams to show separation between External & Internal. In my opinion (for what that's worth) I don't give a fuk what uniform he wants me to wear....I only care about the art. If your not capable of marketing the art itself then wtf is a uniform or name going to do for you....we are not Chinese ( they don't even have uniforms) and our art came out of Indonesia not China. If your proud of your art why would you want to change the name or uniforms

[tattooedmonk]

It is when these changes get in the way of the sytem and training itself that it is a problem. For ex: you cant train here unless you wear this uniform, or you cant teach in this state because you cant or dont train with this instructor. If you do this form different in say Georgia than in Nevada you cant teach. How will i MAKE MONEY FROM YOUR SCHOOL IF YOU PAY HOMAGE TO LEXINGTON AND WANT TO TEACH IN SAY GEORGIA. THIS IS WHERE THE CHANGE AS IT IS CALLED IS NOT A GOOD THING. THERE ARE THOSE THAT HAVE TRAINED IN MANY AREAS AND WANT TO TRAIN BUT CANT OPEN A SCHOOL OR TRAIN WITH THE PEOPLE 1 -2 MILES FROM THEIR HOUSE DUE TO THE CR@@ or disagreements this splits the system itself. I cant train with a guy I have known for 10 years because an EM doesnt want me to . This has nothing to do with the Shaolin or MA ethic at all. More a lack of ethic Sorry for the caps. KC

Dont hold back KC, tell us how you really feel!!!