View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

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    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #12286
    Quote Originally Posted by Baqualin View Post
    yes..............................
    Thanks..............

  2. #12287
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    It is when these changes get in the way of the sytem and training itself that it is a problem. For ex: you cant train here unless you wear this uniform, or you cant teach in this state because you cant or dont train with this instructor. If you do this form different in say Georgia than in Nevada you cant teach. How will i MAKE MONEY FROM YOUR SCHOOL IF YOU PAY HOMAGE TO LEXINGTON AND WANT TO TEACH IN SAY GEORGIA. THIS IS WHERE THE CHANGE AS IT IS CALLED IS NOT A GOOD THING. THERE ARE THOSE THAT HAVE TRAINED IN MANY AREAS AND WANT TO TRAIN BUT CANT OPEN A SCHOOL OR TRAIN WITH THE PEOPLE 1 -2 MILES FROM THEIR HOUSE DUE TO THE CR@@ or disagreements this splits the system itself. I cant train with a guy I have known for 10 years because an EM doesnt want me to . This has nothing to do with the Shaolin or MA ethic at all. More a lack of ethic Sorry for the caps. KC
    I know about your situation well KC and understand where your coming from.....the teaching Terr. was set up to protect teachers working an area and you happen to be in an area that's already been locked up for a while.....as far as the training part that's another story....I see where your coming from....but you also know the circumstances involved......also keep in mine that the doors of your school are open to any of GMS students from anywhere....also if you want to work out with someone keep it to yourself...your time is your time and no one has the right to tell you who to be friends with. Your also lucky.......knowing your teacher, you have the original way things have been taught for over 40 years and GMS has made no significant changes regardless of what people say.....he told me himself (I will not mention names) that he teaches certain people things and the next time he sees them they are not doing it the way he showed them.....now there are a few forms that have been taught slightly different at other schools and when I ask him I was told to listen to my teacher, because he has the most details.
    BQ

  3. #12288
    Quote Originally Posted by Baqualin View Post
    If you've ever been a parent of multiple children........sometimes after they cry, complain, make excuses, throw fits....you finally say fuk it and let them have their way. This part has been all about marketing...not what GMS wants...it's his art not mine.....personally I don't like silk pajamas.....I only teach Internal so I do wear a sam....it's heavy cotton not silk and I wear my original uniform just as much....I like the way it feels......he went for the sams to show separation between External & Internal. In my opinion (for what that's worth) I don't give a fuk what uniform he wants me to wear....I only care about the art. If your not capable of marketing the art itself then wtf is a uniform or name going to do for you....we are not Chinese ( they don't even have uniforms) and our art came out of Indonesia not China. If your proud of your art why would you want to change the name or uniforms
    I dont agree but, I understand .

    The uniforms (GI)and the name (DO) bring up a red flag to most and it doesnt just close the door but locks it for many, no matter what the content of the art is. Most people can not get past this, I do not care, I wear both one for internal and one for external.

    What is wrong with changing the name and uniforms to make it more marketable as a Chinese Martial Art?

    It is a Chinese Martial Art, no matter if it came directly from china or indonesia or wherever The Chinese have adopted sams to make distinction between what they do and other martial arts.

    They used to be their regular clothes.

    Master Ie changed it , what is wrong with it being changed again??

    I see it as the evolution of the art.

    I see where the Masters that I mentioned are doing it to get more people to practice the art and eliminate any further questions or doubts based on the name and the uniforms and other non intrinsic things.

    I also see where by making these changes they are making it more about the art.
    Last edited by tattooedmonk; 07-08-2009 at 02:06 PM.

  4. #12289
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    If our art is different then our uniform should be different, I have a design for a uniform that combines the flavor of the Chinese / Shaolin and the durability of the Gi , I feel it should be adopted by all schools. As far as training, I want to be welcome anywhere not ousted due to petty ego or for the Love of money. One EM used to treat my child like his own now he treats me like an enemy this was after he offered once to let me run one of his schools. Talk about 2 faced, I wouldnt let anyone I know train with him if I had a say so in it. KC YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE111
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  5. #12290
    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    If our art is different then our uniform should be different, I have a design for a uniform that combines the flavor of the Chinese / Shaolin and the durability of the Gi , I feel it should be adopted by all schools. As far as training, I want to be welcome anywhere not ousted due to petty ego or for the Love of money. One EM used to treat my child like his own now he treats me like an enemy this was after he offered once to let me run one of his schools. Talk about 2 faced, I wouldnt let anyone I know train with him if I had a say so in it. KC YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE111
    I agree. I have seen one that is made like a Chinese sam but is made of the same material as a Japanese GI. They are unique and it appears that some of the students in ST are using them.

    All of the students under GMT should be able to go anywhere and study with different masters , west or east coast, without any problems or issues coming up.

    Master Sin got in trouble once ( probably more than once) when a bunch of us from the CSC Northridge and CSC Phoenix were invited and went to UCSD for the GD broadsword and Praying Mantis WASTP seminar afew years back, All hell broke loose because DS and SS hadnt seen it before and were asked by one of the students about the form.

    unbelieveable.!!!

  6. #12291
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    If our art is different then our uniform should be different, I have a design for a uniform that combines the flavor of the Chinese / Shaolin and the durability of the Gi , I feel it should be adopted by all schools.
    I have mixed feelings about uniforms.

    1. Chinese uniforms like the ST branches currently use are far better for exercise, forms, tai chi, etc.

    2. After training in BJJ, rolling live, and such, I'm convinced the gi is a far more practical from a sparring standpoint, especially from a throwing, etc. with resistance standpoint. The only downside is that you can sometimes become dependent on a grab or cloth hold that won't be there elsewhere. My Chinese uniform ripped a little up the side with mild contact from a grab. Oh well.


    I can see why SD/ST schools have mixed feelings about it, too. But then, I understand both sides. I do think cosmetic appearances are the driving force behind the change. Most days I'm practicing in some skater shoes or Feiyue, some loose fit khakis, and a T-shirt--whatever I'm wearing at hte moment.

    I don't practice in a uniform that much of the time (considering my daily practice schedule, while I'm not at the shcool every day).

    Doesn't mean that much to me. It'd be really cool to see your design though.

    Sounds like you've gotten a raw deal from some politics, KC. Man, that sucks.

  7. #12292
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    I dont agree but, I understand .

    That's because you've never had kids or should I say a Kinder Garden (just because of the amount of people he has to deal with).......that's only the surface of the problems anyway (don't ask cause you know I won't say anymore)

    The uniforms (GI)and the name (DO) bring up a red flag to most and it doesnt just close the door but locks it for many, no matter what the content of the art is. Most people can not get past this, I do not care, I wear both one for internal and one for external.

    Then they need to go to a school where they can look pretty........our school is doing pretty good right now and has for 40 years........nobody gives a **** about the uniform....of course there's always a handful who will be that way and pass through....but no matter what color pajamas you wear that's going to happen

    What is wrong with changing the name and uniforms to make it more marketable as a Chinese Martial Art?

    Then it's no longer the same art



    It is a Chinese Martial Art, no matter if it came directly from china or indonesia

    I think it's more than that...because it came from In do nesia

    or wherever The Chinese have adopted sams to make distinction between what they do and other martial arts.

    True...the difference between wushu & Traditional

    They used to be their regular clothes.

    Most true Traditional Chinese still don't wear uniforms

    Master Ie changed it , what is wrong with it being changed again??

    He was the Grand Master.

    I see it as the evolution of the art.

    How so.......because you change the cover

    I see where the Masters that I mentioned are doing it to get more people to practice the art and eliminate any further questions or doubts based on the name and the uniforms and other non intrinsic things.

    In case you haven't noticed, it's not working....the schools with name changes and or uniform changes are the ones getting the most flak....excluding the Mullins schools in Tenn. (who by the way was one of EML's top students)

    I also see where by making these changes they are making it more about the art.

    No, just being like all the rest of the Americanized Chinese schools and all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    If you want to pass on GM Sins art then pass it on as he passed it to you and I see nothing wrong with bringing other arts such as BJJ , some other kind of ground art or anything....he!! even bowling and give your school a different name....Joe Goads Martial Arts Academy teaching Shaolin Do , BJJ, MT & Bowling.....but keep each as it's own........if want to do your own thing, then do your own thing...there's nothing wrong with that....look at David Ross he's done his own thing very well...he's taken bits and pieces of everything (tons of CMA techniques in it) and blended it into a very good fighting art...he gives credit where it's due and he doesn't teach under anybodies umbrella but his.

    I'm sorry, it would bother me more to find out that I'm studying Shaolin Ryu, but it's really Shaolin Do (that's for you old & used) speaking of a red flag

    This is only my opinion and how I see it....doesn't really matter here anyway....same people on here for years....we have an occasional newbie come through...but 99% of the students will never read this forum and could give a sh!t

    By the way in 35 years I've never seen GM Sin in a sam

  8. #12293

    Hey BQ ....

    I know what you mean, the kindergarden analogy works.

    I dont give a rats @$$ about the uniforms either. The GI works . I did applications one night in Tai Chi class wearing the sam..... guys hand got stuck in the pocket, ripped it off havent worn it since , except in my solo practice.

    How does the name changing from DO to TAO or using what is recognized as a Chinese uniform make the art different?? I see you contradicted yourself when you commented later in the post about changing the cover.

    Do you think any uniform is neccesary???

    I agree that the art is different than if it came straight from China . I like the Indonesian flavor.

    The schools that changed are getting the most flak from inside the art, not from outside the art, from what I have seen.

    I understand your views and respect them. I have never had any problem with you or any other SD/ ST / CSC people here and do not want any.

    I just came here to talk a little and stir it up so we can have something to talk about.

    Thats all .

    Its good to know how people really feel, rather than a bunch of PC Bull Sh!T

    I will always be loyal to Master Sin and the Art first and foremost.

    And no matter what you might think or believe you know about me I like and respect all you guys and feel as if we are all brothers !!

    Let me ask this in closing, is it or would it be worth changing the name( slightly) and the uniforms to insure that future generations can and will teach and practice the art??

  9. #12294
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    I agree. I have seen one that is made like a Chinese sam but is made of the same material as a Japanese GI. They are unique and it appears that some of the students in ST are using them.

    All of the students under GMT should be able to go anywhere and study with different masters , west or east coast, without any problems or issues coming up.

    All are welcome here and at any seminars.....but if your CSC or ST you probably wouldn't be either for long

    Master Sin got in trouble once ( Has more than once) when a bunch of us from the CSC Northridge and CSC Phoenix were invited and went to UCSD for the GD broadsword and Praying Mantis WASTP seminar afew years back, All hell broke loose because DS and SS hadnt seen it before and were asked by one of the students about the form.

    unbelieveable.!!!
    BINGO............your baiting me on this one TT.....the only thing I will say is this is not coming from SD

    Parting words...It's our policy now not to worry about what the other non SD schools are doing. .....I don't always personally agree with everything politically that goes on at this school and at the same time I don't give a sh!t about that stuff.....the pecking order here has been well established for years and I could care less.....all the classes are taught by EM & Masters only.....I feel very lucky to be here at this time....it's better than it's ever been.
    BQ

  10. #12295
    Quote Originally Posted by Baqualin View Post
    BINGO............your baiting me on this one TT.....the only thing I will say is this is not coming from SD

    Parting words...It's our policy now not to worry about what the other non SD schools are doing. .....I don't always personally agree with everything politically that goes on at this school and at the same time I don't give a sh!t about that stuff.....the pecking order here has been well established for years and I could care less.....all the classes are taught by EM & Masters only.....I feel very lucky to be here at this time....it's better than it's ever been.
    BQ
    I know its not.
    Too bad that any of this stuff is an issue.

    Like you said it is all ego and money driven, in most cases.

    The order is what it is based on time, effort and loyalty etc.

    You are lucky to have the school that you do and the opportunity to learn from many masters in the same school.

    I wish the rest of us were that fortunate.

  11. #12296
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    I know what you mean, the kindergarden analogy works.

    I dont give a rats @$$ about the uniforms either. The GI works . I did applications one night in Tai Chi class wearing the sam..... guys hand got stuck in the pocket, ripped it off havent worn it since , except in my solo practice.

    How does the name changing from DO to TAO or using what is recognized as a Chinese uniform make the art different??

    Because your calling it what it's not for your own benefit

    I see you contradicted yourself when you commented later in the post about changing the cover.

    You spoke of evolving the art through name and uniform change...that's a cover.....your taking a Indonesian flavored Chinese Martial art and trying to make it seem to be a pure PRC based martial.....that's caused us a lot of trouble.....GMS is the GM of Shaolin Do not the Shaolin temple in china.




    Do you think any uniform is neccesary???

    I really don't give a Fuk and as far as why we wear gi's.....did you ever wonder how easy in 1968 it was to get Sam's in Kentucky

    I agree that the art is different than if it came straight from China . I like the Indonesian flavor

    The schools that changed are getting the most flak from inside the art, not from outside the art, from what I have seen.

    Inside the art is politics not flak

    I understand your views and respect them. I have never had any problem with you or any other SD/ ST / CSC people here and do not want any.

    I just came here to talk a little and stir it up so we can have something to talk about.

    Thats all .

    Its good to know how people really feel, rather than a bunch of PC Bull Sh!T

    I will always be loyal to Master Sin and the Art first and foremost.

    And no matter what you might think or believe you know about me I like and respect all you guys and feel as if we are all brothers !

    Let me ask this in closing, is it or would it be worth changing the name( slightly) and the uniforms to insure that future generations can and will teach and practice the art??
    We haven't changed anything and the schools doing great along with other SD schools in the area...lots of Masters in this part of the country...quite a few young ones....I plan on teaching till I die....one thing that is evolving in SD is the Internal program.....it's growing pretty good......on another note who knows what the next fad will be....martian wu maybe
    BQ


    Final note (I got to get to sleep)

    Evolution of an art is in ones self not any one school .....a school with a teacher that has great skills and the ability to transmit that to students along with being a good people & business person will get plenty of students and be successful...no matter the uniform (or no uniform) the name or style

    BQ
    Last edited by Baqualin; 07-08-2009 at 10:48 PM.

  12. #12297
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    Hey old & used...I was just poking fun at you....I liked John....worked with his wife for a little while....hell of a fighter...even went to some of his classes in the late 70's didn't like the changes he made.....took away the circles.....something you don't want to lose in CMA

  13. #12298
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    No worries, buddy. I took no offense. Thought it was kind of funny, actually.

    Like a previous poster said, even though I may not be in SD with you guys any longer, SD has been a major influence on me and my life since 1970. I cannot see anything as a single art surpassing SD and I would not change or wish to turn my back on SD or anyone that is met while practicing SD. That goes for EML/John/etc. Went through way too much to just blank that out. I know a lot has been done and said, but the bottom line is I would still have any of you guys back in the street.

  14. #12299
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldandUsed View Post
    No worries, buddy. I took no offense. Thought it was kind of funny, actually.

    Like a previous poster said, even though I may not be in SD with you guys any longer, SD has been a major influence on me and my life since 1970. I cannot see anything as a single art surpassing SD and I would not change or wish to turn my back on SD or anyone that is met while practicing SD. That goes for EML/John/etc. Went through way too much to just blank that out. I know a lot has been done and said, but the bottom line is I would still have any of you guys back in the street.
    I can say the same.....a major influence on me and my life...I feel it has made me a better person.....GM Sin & EML have always been there for me anytime I've needed support....even with personal things outside of the school.......EML has really mellowed out down through the years and has really made the gym like a big family again.
    Thanks for your kind words regarding SD....we really do care about our people....past and present.
    BQ

  15. #12300

    Hey Guys

    Do any of you believe/ think SD is a hybrid art?

    If so, what of the Indonesian elements do you think gives it the flavor it has??

    If not ,why??

    Do you believe that the art as it was developing was influenced by other asian arts??

    If so or if not , what did or did nt influence it??

    (not talking about the gi ,terminology or the belt ranking system.)

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