View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #12466
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJMantis View Post
    Thanks Judge Pen for the reply. In hindsight I forgot you were in Knoxville, I should have stopped by some time, I lived in Tennessee for about a year...

    I may or may not be going through Lexington, and have never seen SD for myself. Not for curiosity of learning, but just to see it in action. I for one can be pretty critical of SD, maybe it's better if I actually see what they do!
    If you come through Lexington....let me know....your more than welcome to stop by and check us out.
    BQ

  2. #12467
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    Sal C

    You know man you have totally missed the whole concept of MA and esp Shaolin MA. You arrogance and ego are only surpassed by your out and out stupidity. Your statements are inflammatory and without spiritual merit. I dont care what you have written or done or thought. But you need a lesson in humility and discipline. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  3. #12468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    I thought that second weapon was a sai. Isn't that Japanese?


    yes and no i suppose. remember the amount of culture and technique that japan lifted from china. written language, philosophy, sword forging techniques, martial arts, etc.

    sword breakers are pretty much a part of any culture that has seen heavy use of the sword. europe has(d) their own version. with designs similar to this or the wide 'bladed' version with heavy notches along one side to catch the blade in.

    from what ive notices, the gen that i posted, generally has a shorter catch guard, where as the sai's generally is extended a bit longer, which i like better personally.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  4. #12469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    It's been widely speculated that Greed Dragon has been lifting forms from other sources and packaging and selling it as their own. It appears that SD isn't immune to that treatment.
    There's also a drunken form taught by master hiang called drunken ghost chases shadow. I'm wondering if it's the same as green dragons chun li chases ghost and monsters from an eight immortals style. I haven't seen either but the names are similar.

  5. #12470
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    The sai was originally an Okinawan Farm implement It originally had a blade either on oneside or both prior to it being used as a self defense tool or during that time much like the Tonfa and the Nun Chaku, It was later developed into a weapon after Japan Conguered Okinawa, The Jitte was carried by the "police" in Japan and was an off shoot of the Sai which was used against the Samurai of the Tokugawa era I believe.around the 1600's. Most or some of Okinawan culture was derived from the southern Chinese areas and brought back by fisherman etc who visited China. KC
    Last edited by kwaichang; 08-14-2009 at 02:22 PM.
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  6. #12471

    Lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi warrior View Post
    Found this video on YouTube. It's from green dragon studios in Ohio.
    It's exactly the same as our greenbelt shortstick form. Anyone ever checked out their other stuff?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCWXkNTB4h4
    What the PHUCK? That is the form alright but, it looks like white belts are performing it. What is with the straight arms?? If I wasnt looking at the specific movements I wouldnt have recognized the form. Also this is only part of the form. Terribly done.

    Hey JP, No jumps in the way you play this set?? They have been teaching it that way out west since at least 1990.

  7. #12472

    Lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    It's been widely speculated that Greed Dragon has been lifting forms from other sources and packaging and selling it as their own. It appears that SD isn't immune to that treatment.
    But why would anyone want our forms, they are not Chinese in origin, fake and made up by someone who knows nothng about CMA !!!

  8. #12473
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    But why would anyone want our forms, they are not Chinese in origin, fake and made up by someone who knows nothng about CMA !!!
    bout time you admitted it

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  9. #12474
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    The sai was originally an Okinawan Farm implement It originally had a blade either on oneside or both prior to it being used as a self defense tool or during that time much like the Tonfa and the Nun Chaku, It was later developed into a weapon after Japan Conguered Okinawa, The Jitte was carried by the "police" in Japan and was an off shoot of the Sai which was used against the Samurai of the Tokugawa era I believe.around the 1600's. Most or some of Okinawan culture was derived from the southern Chinese areas and brought back by fisherman etc who visited China. KC
    The sai was never an Okinawan farm implement. It was a weapon used throughout China and southeast asia, including Okinawa. As far as I know it was never a bladed weapon, it was always a truncheon, used mainly by law enforcement.
    Okinawa was a trading culture, fishermen didn't visit China. They were traders in expensive luxury goods much desired all over Asia, and took defense of their ships and their goods very seriously. The ryukyu islands really had no exports of their own, they had too few natural resources. Any iron/steel weapons they had would have been imported from another country. They were the middle men who bought and sold items to cultures who otherwise wouldn't have any contact with eachother (or who had less than cordial relations, like Japan and China). A tributary alliance with China was established during the Tang dynasty, and for centuries Chinese government and trading envoys lived on Okinawa sharing their culture, in addition to representatives of the Okinawan noble family traveling to China to study there. This is the most obvious way that Chinese martial arts and weapons were introduced to Okinawa.
    "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow, you cannot pass!"

  10. #12475
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    Leto

    Sai is a weapon that belongs to the arsenal of the okinawan kobudo. The exact date of its arrival to Okinawa is unknown, but the similar tools can be found throughout the coast of South Asia. There is an assumption that sai has been brought from China, where similar kinds of weapon can be found in the arsenals of the different kinds of chua �fa traditions. One theory says that this weapon was based on a similar tool that was used for making holes in the ground for planting rice. Nevertheless, since there is no solid proof, the origin of the sai has remained unknown.

    Before 1900, sai was used by the members of the local police �chikusaji� for doing their duty and for self-protection. They were in charge for guarding the palace, collecting tax, maintaining the order and catching outlaws. Before the appearance of the fire weapon, staff was most common weapon used in physical confrontation. General population used different kinds of sticks, wands, clubs and hoes in daily work and in self-defense. Sai was the ideal weapon for defending oneself against attacker with a stick or a club, because it enables catching the opponent�s weapon and disarming.
    This is from a site on Ko Budo or Okinawan weaponry KC
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  11. #12476
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    BTW the Okinawans during that time were not in trade but agriculture thus they were easily dominated by the Kyoshu or Japan inhabitants with their Sword and Other weapons as well as organised armies KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  12. #12477
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    San Ku Chu

    THE SAI (SHORT SWORD WITH TWO PRONGS AT THE HANDLE) WAS A FARM AND FISHING IMPLEMENT. FOR FARMING, IT WAS DRAGGED THROUGH THE SOIL BY ONE PEASANT, WHILE ANOTHER WOULD PLANT SEED IN THE RESULTING FURROW. AS A FISHING TOOL, IT WAS ATTACHED TO A SIX FOOT TO NINE FOOT "BO" (STAFF) AND USED TO SPEAR FISH. IT WAS USED IT COMBAT MUCH LIKE THE "ROCHIN" (SPEAR). A SAI SET CONSIST OF THREE, ONE FOR EACH HAND (THEY WERE SHEATHED THROUGH THE SIDES OF THE OBI (BELT)) AND THE THREE SAI WAS CARRIED AT THE BACK OF THE OBI (BELT). EVEN A PROFICIENT SAI ARTIST WOULD FIND THE THIRD SAI CUMBERSOME IN THE REAR OF THE OBI (BELT) WHEN ENGAGING IN BATTLE. THUS THE THIRD SAI WAS ACTUALLY THROWN AT THE ENEMY. THIS MANEUVER WAS OFTEN THE KEY TO WINNING THE ENCOUNTER. THE OKINAWA SAI WAS DEVELOPED FROM A SIMILAR CHINESE WEAPON CALLED THE "SAN-KU-CHU".
    Interesting KC
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  13. #12478
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    What the PHUCK? That is the form alright but, it looks like white belts are performing it. What is with the straight arms?? If I wasnt looking at the specific movements I wouldnt have recognized the form. Also this is only part of the form. Terribly done.

    Hey JP, No jumps in the way you play this set?? They have been teaching it that way out west since at least 1990.
    They'res skipping steps but not emphazied the way they performed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  14. #12479
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    What the PHUCK? That is the form alright but, it looks like white belts are performing it. What is with the straight arms?? If I wasnt looking at the specific movements I wouldnt have recognized the form. Also this is only part of the form. Terribly done.

    Hey JP, No jumps in the way you play this set?? They have been teaching it that way out west since at least 1990.
    Bizarre. THey're using the short sticks like they're swords, striking with the wrist pointed forward. You get too much recoil that way, and the stick stands a better chance of getting thwacked out of your hand. I always hold it like a hammer, 90 deg. from the wrist. Full impact, no recoil, sets up a quick second strike. It's not really our form, per say, since they're standing that high, and prancing like fairies.

    Hmmmm....bad. It almost looks like someone who is trying to do wushu lifted an SD form and then wushu-ized it. Kind of like regurgitating something that was originally regurgitated to begin with...LOL! It actually reminds me of that form the dude from Fight Science did, when he regurgitated Lohan Chien and Fei Hu Chu Tung---it looked....well, like a form the guy learned on a lunch break. Better than Green Dragon's Whirlwind Fairy Form, but still not, uh, great.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oihda...eature=related (1:58 mark)

    Jumps? We don't jump in ATL, but you move forward kind of like the way you do in broadsword---more like a hibbity-hop.
    Last edited by Shaolin Wookie; 08-16-2009 at 02:06 PM.
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  15. #12480

    Lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaolin Wookie View Post
    Bizarre. THey're using the short sticks like they're swords, striking with the wrist pointed forward. You get too much recoil that way, and the stick stands a better chance of getting thwacked out of your hand. I always hold it like a hammer, 90 deg. from the wrist. Full impact, no recoil, sets up a quick second strike. It's not really our form, per say, since they're standing that high, and prancing like fairies.

    Hmmmm....bad. It almost looks like someone who is trying to do wushu lifted an SD form and then wushu-ized it. Kind of like regurgitating something that was originally regurgitated to begin with...LOL! It actually reminds me of that form the dude from Fight Science did, when he regurgitated Lohan Chien and Fei Hu Chu Tung---it looked....well, like a form the guy learned on a lunch break. Better than Green Dragon's Whirlwind Fairy Form, but still not, uh, great.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oihda...eature=related (1:58 mark)

    Jumps? We don't jump in ATL, but you move forward kind of like the way you do in broadsword---more like a hibbity-hop.
    Yeah, thats about how I feel about it too. Terrible....

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