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Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.
Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.
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Taai , there isnt any philosophy taught in SD from what I have seen. The teachers leave that to the person themselves. Senior or beginner what happened if indeed it did is wrong. I see the same thing occuring in MMA when one is given a weapon without the proper philosophy to guide it , they are just creating a monster. The fact that this guy is a EM in SD has nothing to do with Moral teaching. That is not what is taught in SD. Therefore GMT cannot be held accountable for what a student does. KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
Resigned
LOL - and so one just flushes whatever aspects of traditional CMA down the toilet when it is no longer convenient, eh? lol, how pathetic you and all your SD mouthpieces are - you moan and cry about how authentic and traditional your training is, how pure and unadulterated the system is, how legitimate and connected to Shaolin it is - and yet you don't know the FIRST thing about how a traditional sifu /student relationship is constructed - you realize that, as his sifu, GM The is DIRECTLY responsible, according to TRADITIONAL CMA mores, for what his student does when acting as his representative (or really in ANY capacity, if he has taken him as a disciple); meaning that Soard's actions reflect DIRECTLY on his sifu, his sifu is considered just as accountable if not more so!Originally Posted by kwaichang
you and all your ilk are just idiots
humungous the barbarian
Ahahahahahahhahahahaahhahahahahaaha:d
beautiful post taai:d:d
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
Resigned
BS and that's just a pathetic attempt to try and excuse this sort of thing, for which there is no excuse, regardless of whatever phermonal or chakratic interactions may occur - I am a licensed PT in NYS, and have manually treated numerous attractive and necesarilly scantily-clad females; was there something "chemical" and "energetic" that occurred? you bet there was! did any of them ever give me very strong indication that it would be ok to do something of a non-professional sort? yes; but did I EVER do anything inappropriate or unethical? NEVER; why not? because I am a professional, and as a professional, I understand that the power dynamic of a therapist / patient relationship is fundamentally innappropriate to transfer into a personal one; and likewise, exactly the same with a student / teacher relationship; Soard is a MA professional; whether or not there are any legal statues governing that or not, it is still his sole responsibility as a professional to know the line clearly, to unequivocally stay on his side of it, and, if necessary re-draw the line for a student if they try to cross it; if the line is "blurry", it's because he CHOOSES to see it as such and then CHOOSES to keep it that way; end of story, chemistry is no excuse;
in your mind, maybe; stop trying to be an apologist for what is obviously a clear-cut case of on-going, long-term inappropriate behavior;
yes it is - you just wish it wasn't
the only fact you need to know is those brought out in the court decision; he was guilty, pure and simple - there are no "facts" that will serve to ameliorate his actions, because in his position he should be beyond suspicion;
Resigned
just to show what an even BIGGER idiot you are, you claim that:
and
well then, how do you explain THIS?
GrandMaster ie Chang Ming’s Rules of Life
Grandmaster Ie Chang Ming’s Rules
for Shaolin-Do
Obey the rules of society.
Demonstrate excellent martial art spirit.
Respect elders and honor friends.
Be kind and love others.
Show good faith to others and keep their trust.
Support the weak and aid the needy.
Demonstrate good conduct and excellent learning spirit.
Cultivate the body and nourish the spirit.
Be disciplined, be generous, be honest, be loyal and give forgiveness.
Be alert, be wise, be open minded and be patient.
I am proud to say that Grandmaster Sin is a living example of these rules and is a constant source of inspiration. These are positive, life-affirming rules and will stand up to anything you will ever read in a “self-help” book.
(bold added by me for emphasis)
this, BTW, was posted here, on the Austin SD website! is it me, or are they refeerencing a DIFFERENT Ie Chang Ming? or is it that, the rules apply differently to different SD schools, just like the forms are all "a little different"?
case closed, you are a total moron who doesn't even know the contents of your own style, Soard has clearly violated the precepts handed down by his style's Great High Googley-Goo Grand Master, and The is a hypocrite if he doesn't unequivocally disown him;
SD is just BS, fraudulent and pathetic;
any questions? didn't think so; next!
humungous the barbarian
not a good day for sd at all
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
Registered User
So Taai being a PT if you are, then you must have been a CI at some time. Have any of your students ever done anything wrong? If so you should turn in your license and stop practicing PT if you are responsible. Of course you wouldnt do that because you have complete control over what all your students do.
I am aware of the rules you printed , but that is not Morals they are a philosophical attitude. There is a difference. BTW now I think I know who you are and am ashamed to say I too am a Therapist and it saddens me that you have so little empathy for a fellow MA whether you care for their system or not. KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
humungous the barbarian
oh yeah let sympathize with a guy who made innapropriate sexual advances on women that were unwelcomed
**** david soards like a modern day rosa parks!
I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.
left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse
handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down
Registered User
taai gihk yahn
I would appreciate your comments more if there were less venom behind them.
This is a discussion about a very flammable topic. While I do not agree with what has happened in Denver/Boulder that does not mean I will resort to name calling and bald faced flaming.
He was found guilty. I for one am not a licensed therapist nor have I examined MDS.
My opinion is based on my moral attitude towards this type of behavior.
It would be great if the others here involved in the discussion could leave their egos at the door and attempt to discuss this from a more level headed viewpoint.
He made a huge mistake (more than once it seems)
I dont agree with that behavior nor how it was responded to.
At the end of the day though, I still love this art. I WILL find a way to continue to train in it.
JP maybe I can move in? LOL
Registered User
Honestly, this should not have been that much of a big deal. Take all the lofty titles and ideals away and what you are left with a an uneducated hick from backwoods Kentucky. Does it surprise anyone that he would act this way.
What surprises and offends me is the way this was handled (and is still being handled) by Sin The'. When the first charges were made in Colorado Springs Sin should have immediately suspended David and investigated the matter himself. None of this was done and now it has led to more charges and convictions in Boulder. Yet Sin continues to support Soard...I don't get it. Does he pay him that much money or is Soard really running the show?
Registered User
The quotes Taai repeated were taught to me by my 1st SD instructor, and others since. It was taken seriously. But he was not perfect. Neither am I. That doesn't change what one may aspire to do and be. What happened to DS, or more accurately what he alledgedly did, even what he reportedly admitted he did, shows what is wrong with him, as a person and a martial arts teacher, if it is true. If it is true, no one can dispute it is wrong from an ethics point of view, and wrong in the sense of traditional martial arts. More wrong, than declaring one's own uniform, school name, and methods, as opposed to one's own master's instruction. That is all on him. If true, he shows himself to be either:1) one who doesn't see the pursuit of a sexual relationship by a master/teacher with a martial arts student, as wrong; 2) he does know it was wrong, but did it anyway; or 3) he doesn't read the Creeds as barring pursuit of such a relationship. Hypocrite and charlatan, maybe. Unethical, in my opinion, definitely. We know there are martial arts instructors who think it is nothing more than teaching the form, how to fight, and that is it. Its not different than a driving instructor. There is no "relationship" beyond regurgitating facts. That doesn't make it right, just makes it what he made it to be.
What it shows about SD, in general, is that it also, as do all walks of life, have its bad apples. I would modify Taai's statement, that "SD is BS, fraudulent, and pathetic," to, "Some SD people are" all of that. In the old days, the GM of the style, system, school, temple, might indeed throw the person out, stop teaching them, and the person would find another school or teacher, if possible. And if further insult were made, or dishonor brought, someone might handle it more directly. You know: "You have offended my family, and you have offended the Shaolin Temple." And then fight it out. Cannot happen here now today.
Today, what can anyone do? The S's aleady declared themselves somewhat outside of GMS's control when they created CSC, didn't they? Many say that was wrong, too. And if GMS did something to disown DS, that's the same as disowning CSC, isn't it? And they would go on, and just not get continued forms and instruction from GMS. But he didn't do it then, and there was a reason for that, which may or may not be a good reason. That is up to him. If he doesn't, it means he is permissive in areas and ways some wish he weren't, but that is true with many of the breakaway factions he has continued to associate with. Only he knows for sure why, and anyone who doesn't think those reasons could be benevolent, or could be less, is also wrong.
But it must be true, that if people are in SD to be part of a monastic life, then their teacher better be of that mind, or they better learn what they can in class and practice the rest in their own time. They are wrong to think that is what they are going to get. They are going to get, at a minimum, instruction in forms and methods of martial arts, from the perspective of GMS, and we all know the debate on that. They are going to also get exposure to a philosophy, some rules for living one's life, as to fitness, diet, mentality, yes, but only to the extent their own teacher preaches that. Some do, some don't. Anyone who comes into SD, or stays with SD, thinking anything else, or thinking every instructor's method, from GMS down is the same everywhere, is wrong.
But that is a minimum. Any student can take that minimum, and do more with it. Doing so is up to them. They better not depend on the System to make them do it. That is not, in modern times, what it does.
SD is what it is. But it is also what an individual makes of it, on their own, some to good, some not. To some that is okay. To others it never will be.
Last edited by One student; 09-27-2009 at 06:29 PM.
Just One Student
"I seek, not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions." --- Kwai Chang Caine
(I'd really like to know all the answers, too, but understanding the questions, like most of my martial arts practice, is a more realistically attainable goal)
Registered User
I am not saying to sympathise with DS I am saying that Taai is too harsh if in fact he is a Therapist he should be filled with Empathy for the people he serves. Not down grading for what they do, or whom they are associated with. I know for a fact in another school that another teacher was charged for the same type of thing. He is in jail for it. DS was found guilty of a lesser charge that is the system , it isnt always right but that is the way it is. Many of you talk about how they should be kicked out and stripped of rank. Those same people talk of the martial creeds and morals and ethics. Then why would you abandon someone when they need you most. He is getting Psychological treatment, at this time everyone abandoning him is the last thing DS needs. He needs help not harrassment. pardon the pun. I am ashamed of all these so called MA that are ready to throw someone to the wolves just because of personal feelings about , in this case , SD. KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
Registered User
BTW non of us really know what was done by GMS . now do we. its all speculation. KC
A Fool is Born every Day !
Registered User
The incident that led to these charges happened three and a half years ago. In all this time there have been a number of students begging Master David to admit to his crimes and to get help. I don't know the exact number of student who have been kicked out of the Schools by the Soards over this but I think you would need more than one hand to count them all.
Students at the school have attempted to stand with him but the price for that (Blind loyality) is just too high.
By the way, the truth is if the man doesn't believe he's done anything wrong then all the psychological treatment and counseling in the world is not going to change him.
Registered User
But we do know what he's NOT done
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