Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

again no the power generation looks nothing like karate

We are all saying the same thing--it is different from karate, but I guess big words like peculiar and distinct make your head hurt so you ignore them.

[Judge Pen]

I have a question for everyone here who thinks Sin The' walks on water and can do no wrong:

Why does every student at the CSC/SD have to take off their shoes before they can enter the school and participate in class? I mean this doesn't apply to Sin The'. He always wears his shoe when teaching a class......Isn't this being disrespectful to the art?

I wear shoes in class.

[BoulderDawg]

If anyone thinks that they are too far gone to help!!lol No, it is not. Whether people wear shoes or not has nothing to do with anything. I think it is a matter of preference . The Japanese take their shoes off the Chinese dont . If we follow both then we should be able to do both

It's not a "matter of preference" at CSC. If you don't remove your shoes you are not allowed on the floor....bar none.....with the exception of The'.

[Judge Pen]

It's not a "matter of preference" at CSC. If you don't remove your shoes you are not allowed on the floor....bar none.....with the exception of The'.

As this thread has shown, the CSC does things differently from other schools. It appears that they are more rigid and controlling on customs within their school. It seems that the "prohibition" from competing in open tournaments might have had some truth at the CSC. The article on David Soard's guilty plea even referenced control over diet habits. I get frusterated with a lot of the perception issues that come from the CSC. I don't agree with it, but I don't train there. If I moved to the west coast I would not train under their supervision based upon what I've seen of their training and based upon one of my friend's experiences trying to train with them.

[BoulderDawg]

Just being fair here, The Soards are hard core vegans as are the two instructors that run the Boulder school. They are gung ho on the vegan lifestyle and suggest it highly. However I think it's a bit much to say anyone was required to be vegan.

Now that's for the so-called "normal everday student". Now, for the inner circle, the 4-5 students who would probably kill for the Soards if they ask them to, I have no doubt they are required to be vegan. However, considering the manual labor the Soards make some of these people do on their farm for nothing other than school credit I would hope they feed them something other than bean sprouts.

[goju]

We are all saying the same thing--it is different from karate, but I guess big words like peculiar and distinct make your head hurt so you ignore them.

yes clearly im the unintelligent one after all i dont practice an art that doesnt resemble shaolin, pentjack, karate or any other art for that matter and has no documented evidence of it being an authentic style as well as being a laughing stock amongst the kung fu community

**** im uneducated!

[tattooedmonk]

It's not a "matter of preference" at CSC. If you don't remove your shoes you are not allowed on the floor....bar none.....with the exception of The'.

As I understood it, when I was attending CSC ,if you asked for permission to wear shoes for whatever reason and as long as they are not used on any other surface besides the kwoon floor then it was ok.

[Mas Judt]

Judge,
You'll find it much more pleasant when you ignore the angry.

Here is some food for thought:
Karate is a derived from various Southern Fist methods - and were badly misunderstood. In order to make it work for them, it evolved down different roads, some fruitful, some not so fruitful. But Karate as it was first taught shows tremendous misunderstanding as to what was being done, why it was being done and how it should work compared to the systems they came from.

As a result, you have seen evolution - people innovated to fill the gaps. So you get things as diverse as Shidokan (adds boxing and Muay Thai skills), Tae Kwon Do (read 'a killing art' - the history of TKD), Kyokoshinkai, etc. There is god material in a lot of Karate, but I have yet to meet the Karate man who actually knew what it was. Not a slam, just an observation. Karate is NOT South Shaolin. And if you think it moves the same, you don't know South Shaolin.

And I think I was pretty clear when I drew a distinction between Karate-flavored moves* and the body method of Sin The'. It's different.

And there is great variety among your schools in quality - although I strongly doubt the efficacy of such a forms-heavy and contradictory curriculum. I'd bet if the schools focused on the core of what your teacher offers, they would be better in just about every way.

* What I saw in Vegas in the early 90's at an SD school. Karate one-step sparring and really, really bad Aiki-like joint locks called 'Chin Na'.

[Judge Pen]

Just being fair here, The Soards are hard core vegans as are the two instructors that run the Boulder school. They are gung ho on the vegan lifestyle and suggest it highly. However I think it's a bit much to say anyone was required to be vegan.

Now that's for the so-called "normal everday student". Now, for the inner circle, the 4-5 students who would probably kill for the Soards if they ask them to, I have no doubt they are required to be vegan. However, considering the manual labor the Soards make some of these people do on their farm for nothing other than school credit I would hope they feed them something other than bean sprouts.

Anyway you slice that, that's weird and cultish.

[Judge Pen]

Judge,
You'll find it much more pleasant when you ignore the angry.

Here is some food for thought:
Karate is a derived from various Southern Fist methods - and were badly misunderstood. In order to make it work for them, it evolved down different roads, some fruitful, some not so fruitful. But Karate as it was first taught shows tremendous misunderstanding as to what was being done, why it was being done and how it should work compared to the systems they came from.

As a result, you have seen evolution - people innovated to fill the gaps. So you get things as diverse as Shidokan (adds boxing and Muay Thai skills), Tae Kwon Do (read 'a killing art' - the history of TKD), Kyokoshinkai, etc. There is god material in a lot of Karate, but I have yet to meet the Karate man who actually knew what it was. Not a slam, just an observation. Karate is NOT South Shaolin. And if you think it moves the same, you don't know South Shaolin.

And I think I was pretty clear when I drew a distinction between Karate-flavored moves* and the body method of Sin The'. It's different.

And there is great variety among your schools in quality - although I strongly doubt the efficacy of such a forms-heavy and contradictory curriculum. I'd bet if the schools focused on the core of what your teacher offers, they would be better in just about every way.

* What I saw in Vegas in the early 90's at an SD school. Karate one-step sparring and really, really bad Aiki-like joint locks called 'Chin Na'.

One of the reasons I don't go to my SD teacher's class (there are several really not the least of being increased work/family obligations and proximity of my home to my teacher's class) was I was burned out on learning more forms. I have a handful of forms that I've learned that I keep up with because I find them useful and fun form myself. I miss the class environment and the motivation that comes with that, but I lost interest in learning more forms and obtaining more rank.

[goju]

Judge,
You'll find it much more pleasant when you ignore the angry.

Here is some food for thought:
Karate is a derived from various Southern Fist methods - and were badly misunderstood. In order to make it work for them, it evolved down different roads, some fruitful, some not so fruitful. But Karate as it was first taught shows tremendous misunderstanding as to what was being done, why it was being done and how it should work compared to the systems they came from.

As a result, you have seen evolution - people innovated to fill the gaps. So you get things as diverse as Shidokan (adds boxing and Muay Thai skills), Tae Kwon Do (read 'a killing art' - the history of TKD), Kyokoshinkai, etc. There is god material in a lot of Karate, but I have yet to meet the Karate man who actually knew what it was. Not a slam, just an observation. Karate is NOT South Shaolin. And if you think it moves the same, you don't know South Shaolin.

And I think I was pretty clear when I drew a distinction between Karate-flavored moves* and the body method of Sin The'. It's different.

And there is great variety among your schools in quality - although I strongly doubt the efficacy of such a forms-heavy and contradictory curriculum. I'd bet if the schools focused on the core of what your teacher offers, they would be better in just about every way.

* What I saw in Vegas in the early 90's at an SD school. Karate one-step sparring and really, really bad Aiki-like joint locks called 'Chin Na'.

lol again ignorance on certian things the old chinese notion that they only taught half or watered down kung fu to the okinawans is one that is not based in any fact

in reality masters like kanryo higashionna spent extensive time learning kung fu and when he brought it back to okinawa he felt that altough kung fu was effective there were certain parts in it that werent useful so he disposed of them in order to suit the need of the okinawan people and lets not for get the fact traditional okinawan arts were blended in with the chinese ones that were learned to make karate

tremendous misunderstanding? thats funny because when sensei morio higaonna went to china to research goju ryu he found that the okinawans managed to preserve the chinese kata to this day as they were taught hundred of years ago to them by the chinese, youd think that would have happend for a people who misunderstood

[kwaichang]

Do you think the Chinese MA actually taught the Okinawans the total and true CMA or just a derivative of it. ??? KC

[kwaichang]

There seems to be alot of personal animosity going on here , are any of you truly unbiased by your own personal experiences with a SD teacher. I think most are angry for what ever reason. They choose to vent on this forum to bring glory to their own thoughts. KC

[Mas Judt]

lol again ignorance on certian things the old chinese notion that they only taught half or watered down kung fu to the okinawans is one that is not based in any fact

in reality masters like kanryo higashionna spent extensive time learning kung fu and when he brought it back to okinawa he felt that altough kung fu was effective there were certain parts in it that werent useful so he disposed of them in order to suit the need of the okinawan people and lets not for get the fact traditional okinawan arts were blended in with the chinese ones that were learned to make karate

tremendous misunderstanding? thats funny because when sensei morio higaonna went to china to research goju ryu he found that the okinawans managed to preserve the chinese kata to this day as they were taught hundred of years ago to them by the chinese, youd think that would have happend for a people who misunderstood

Goju, this is complete and utter nonsense. If you do not know what you do not know, you may never even realize it is missing. Goju Ryu is a brilliant example of what I'm talking about - it completely misses the point of it's source material. Of course the guy who is trying to cover up for the fact that what he is teaching is not the actual method (no Okinawan or Japanese would EVER get 'in the door' back in those days) - so he says he 'fixed' it. And then adds a fanciful story being told he 'kept it pure,' So which is it? Fixed for his audience or the pure style?!? I guess it doesn't matter, it is what it is. And what it is, is not CMA. It is now something else.

Dude, seriously, don't just repeat propaganda, a lot of this is easily explored in this modern word of digital openness. Maybe you should look at yourself before you cast stones, my young man.

[goju]

Do you think the Chinese MA actually taught the Okinawans the total and true CMA or just a derivative of it. ??? KC

if i may use kanryo higashionna for example again he ended up saving his chinese sifu ru ru ko's daughters life from drowning in the water and when asked by ru ru ko what he could do to pay kanryo back and thank him for saving his duaghters life kanryo asked him to teach him kung fu

you really think he would have gave him a waterd down form of kung fu after he saved one of his family members life?

or another example would be of course the famous iron body skills many okinawans stylist posess from doing sanchin

for claims that karate is watered down kung fu or the okinawans learned from watching how did they learn this

you cant learn chi gung just by watching you have to have intensive one on one instruction with your instructor where things are taught in detail to be able to master this technique



for these reasons i laugh at people who claim the okinwans learned waterd down fu its nothing more than an old wives tale