Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[tattooedmonk]

you guys are on one again today?? J/K

[BoulderDawg]

Maybe it's a culture thing but this entire respect idea is a bit much if you ask me.

I don't think it's disrespectful to tell a master that he is wrong or that maybe current trends in the art have past him by.

[kwaichang]

Bruce you asked what we thought , he did not, You are not my teacher he is. I am not saying his was perfect just that I have seen it better. Some elements of Tai Chi are not physical and cannot be expressed. Also, as EML said there is one way to do Tai Chi for a MA application and another for health. I feel the health aspect will be done different much like the old MA contributing to Shoto-kan are performed physically different such as the front stance etc. That is all I am saying. So no I really dont fully agree with you. But from a technical health standpoint I will say you are right about the technigue etc performed. KC

[brucereiter]

In Texas, when I learned the 24 posture form, it was claimed that this form was developed at Shaolin Temple and taught there as part of the curriculum and was a mixture of Yang and Chen. Although there was no Chen as far as I can tell.

As far as the history of Tai Chi, Leonard is spot on. This is what I was taught by my Master as well. However, the Shaolin Tai Chi is not very similar to Yang Tai Chi at all. It is more similar to Chen. None of the Tai Chi forms that SD have are taught by the Temple.

Bruce, I thought your Chen was way better

when i first started in atlanta the 24 form was called the "shaolin combination form"
its description from the schools poster was as follows

"shaolin combination "24" form combines essential elements from variuos shaolin tai chi long forms. it was a shorter faster moving form compared to shaolin forms.students will learn form and applicability of various postures."

that was information given to gary from his seniors so it is what he told "us". after he found more information he now calls it "Tai Ji Quan 24 Form" and does not in anyway as far as i know associate it with shaolin temple.

bill is not spot on with that history he shared. what bill said is in fact a legend.
it is a legend that has zero to do with the 3 main forms of tai chi done in shaolin do
yang 64 cheng man ching form, chen xin jia chen fake' form and the 24 tai chi form The form was the result of an effort by the Chinese Sports Committee which, in 1956, brought together four tai chi teachers - Chu Guiting, Cai Longyun, Fu Zhongwen and Zhang Yu - to create a simplified form of tai chi as exercise for the masses.

[brucereiter]

Bruce you asked what we thought , he did not, You are not my teacher he is.

I am not saying his was perfect just that I have seen it better.

Some elements of Tai Chi are not physical and cannot be expressed. Also, as EML said there is one way to do Tai Chi for a MA application and another for health.

I feel the health aspect will be done different much like the old MA contributing to Shoto-kan are performed physically different such as the front stance etc. That is all I am saying. So no I really dont fully agree with you. But from a technical health standpoint I will say you are right about the technigue etc performed. KC

how about this since i am now losing interest ... we will agree to disagree and let the evidence speak for its self.

next topic please:-)

[tattooedmonk]

in what fashion do you/ are you supposed to hold your hands when doing sparring techniques??

As most of you have seen, the Soards teach it with both hands in an uppercut position



........... I use vertical fist..........

[BoulderDawg]

in what fashion do you/ are you supposed to hold your hands when doing sparring techniques??

As most of you have seen, the Soards teach it with both hands in an uppercut position

........... I use vertical fist..........

Since it's just an exercise I guess you could do it flippin' the bird if you really wanted too!

[brucereiter]

i would think about the pros and cons of the i guess 3 positions in question.

is it a fist you are hitting with? what its the target and where are you in relation to the target? for example a possible advantage to the "uppercut" position is for a strike to the face your hand may be less likely to be damages (like zuan chuan from the 5 roads punch to the face vs. beng chuan punch to solar plexus)

[kwaichang]

In the 5 Roads of Hsing Ie I am certain it is tied to the 5 elements and their corresponding Meridians such as Heart Fire etc. I do upper cut for the 1st ST but feel it is more like a western fencing thrust tech.
BTW i went to a Chen , and PaKua school school this evening and met the teacher. He was pretty Da// good . Will let you know more later. Bruce if you will read my last sentence of my last post I am agreeing with you. FYI. KC

[tattooedmonk]

in what fashion do you/ are you supposed to hold your hands when doing sparring techniques??

As most of you have seen, the Soards teach it with both hands in an uppercut position



........... I use vertical fist..........

The reason I chose to do vertical fist is because it is a neutral position and the most natural . If you do a quarter turn outward it becomes a uppercut, a quarter turn inward and it becomes a horizontal fist. From an uppercut positon you have to turn it a half turn inward to get to horizontal fist, this takes time . Having them already in an uppercut position has other offensive and defensive drawbacks...just food for thought.

[tattooedmonk]

i would think about the pros and cons of the i guess 3 positions in question.

is it a fist you are hitting with? what its the target and where are you in relation to the target? for example a possible advantage to the "uppercut" position is for a strike to the face your hand may be less likely to be damages (like zuan chuan from the 5 roads punch to the face vs. beng chuan punch to solar plexus)

I see that as a punch to the throat and not the face... same idea though.....

[tattooedmonk]

Since it's just an exercise I guess you could do it flippin' the bird if you really wanted too!

thats my favorite way!!!

[tattooedmonk]

In the 5 Roads of Hsing Ie I am certain it is tied to the 5 elements and their corresponding Meridians such as Heart Fire etc. I do upper cut for the 1st ST but feel it is more like a western fencing thrust tech.
BTW i went to a Chen , and PaKua school school this evening and met the teacher. He was pretty Da// good . Will let you know more later. Bruce if you will read my last sentence of my last post I am agreeing with you. FYI. KC

you are correct, it is connected to the Heart and Sm Intestines( ZANG FU)

I use a back fist for #1....FYI

I am also interested in hearing about this school you went to today......

[brucereiter]

I see that as a punch to the throat and not the face... same idea though.....

yeah i think basically anywhere you can strike in a upwards manner.

for example i have 2 training partners 1 who is about 6'7" and the other who is barley 5' tall.

in usage for the 5' tall guy hitting the 6'7" guy that "throat" shot may be more valuable to the solar plexus or kidneys etc since he cant reach the tall fellows throat. and visa-versa the tall guy might have the opposite problem.

my point is the attributes of the movement may be more important that the target if that makes sense.

good reasoning on the vertical fist idea ...

[brucereiter]

In the 5 Roads of Hsing Ie I am certain it is tied to the 5 elements and their corresponding Meridians such as Heart Fire etc. I do upper cut for the 1st ST but feel it is more like a western fencing thrust tech.
BTW i went to a Chen , and PaKua school school this evening and met the teacher. He was pretty Da// good . Will let you know more later. Bruce if you will read my last sentence of my last post I am agreeing with you. FYI. KC

now this is an area of tai chi chuan etc where i am mostly ignorant. on a intellectual level i know a small bit about meridians etc but on a practical level i know very little.

was it a school in la you visited? how was it?

no worries on the previous topics ... i put you on the spot about your teacher ...