View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #13156
    Concerning the picture:

    I'm sure this will be dismissed but I just found it interesting that no Asian in these pictures is wearing a Gi. That was always one of the things that The's stressed. Everyone wore a gi because they wanted to hide anything Chinese.

    Even in the group picture the only guy that looks like he has a gi on is the tall westerner in the center. Also from the way that looks I'm guessing the tall guy was some sort of guest of honor here. Would not everyone be wearing their gi?

    Also, from that group picture, I'm guessing (because of the clothes they are wearing) that this was taken sometime in the 60s. I bet a lot of those people are still alive and could tell you exactly who that is.

    I just don't think it's Ie.
    Last edited by BoulderDawg; 10-24-2009 at 12:38 PM.

  2. #13157
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    Stepping should be secure and like it is suctioning the floor/ground
    Ankle to knee to hip to waist to spine to shoulder to elbow to hand
    punching should be as natural as walking
    MA consissts of thrusting, kicking punching locking turning and throwing
    all CMA consists of the Yin Yang or pos/neg of the technique . All CMA have the EYES or stare however you want to say it. The wording is different but all techniques or Chi emanates from the Dan Tien.

    Hey have you heard of the ancient Greek MA Baklava it is so full of energy or honey you can fight forever. Just a bad joke to lighten things up a bit. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  3. #13158
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    Sal

    Is that what you wanted not sure things are often taught differently.
    To say a MA is not effective because you have seen poor MA from that system is not to say it isnt good. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  4. #13159
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderDawg View Post
    I'm sure this will be dismissed but I just found it interesting that no Asian in these pictures is wearing a Gi. That was always one of the things that The's stressed. Everyone wore a gi because they wanted to hide anything Chinese.

    Even in the group picture the only guy that looks like he has a gi on is the tall westerner in the center. Also from the way that looks I'm guessing the tall guy was some sort of guest of honor here. Would not everyone be wearing their gi?
    The large guy was a visiting Judo player, according to Earp. He was just there for a couple of months.

    Have you ever considered that the gi story is bullsh1t? That maybe they trained CMA in Bandung the same way everyone else trains..in t-shirts and pants?


    I just don't think it's Ie.
    People with more invested in the style than you have privately told me they believe it is. Maybe. Maybe not.

    But wouldn't it be cool if it is?
    Last edited by MasterKiller; 10-24-2009 at 04:22 PM.
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  5. #13160
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Have you ever considered that the gi story is bullsh1t? That maybe they trained CMA in Bandung the same way everyone else trains..in t-shirts and pants?
    I haven't totally dismissed the idea that Sin The' isn't some guy who grew up in south Lexington and has made up the entire thing.

    But as far as to whether that is or is not Ie should be fairly easy to prove if someone really wanted to. There are like 30-40 people in that picture. My guess is that most of them are still alive. I'm sure a good PI in Bandung could track that information down in a couple of weeks....if any information exist.
    Last edited by BoulderDawg; 10-24-2009 at 05:18 PM.

  6. #13161
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderDawg View Post
    I haven't totally dismissed the idea that Sin The' isn't some guy who grew up in south Lexington and has made up the entire thing.

    But as far as to whether that is or is not Ie should be fairly easy to prove if someone really wanted to. There are like 30-40 people in that picture. My guess is that most of them are still alive. I'm sure a good PI in Bandung could track that information down in a couple of weeks....if any information exist.
    Baqualin was supposed to show them to Sin himself in Sept. But I haven't heard anything.
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  7. #13162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    A very long time ago, he was sued, in Kentucky, his brother testified against him actually. That's when they split off from each other and his brother went his own way. It came out that he has used books and videos to add more routines to his system. Over 20 years ago, there was articles out about this and when there was only the UseNet message boards and internet forums didn't exist yet, people had posted the transcripts of the case.

    In my opinion, that explains why his routines often looked like strings of postures seen in a photograph to me, without the necessary intermediate movements that happen between the postures (which can't be shown in a book, but by a teacher).
    yep i was even shown the tai chi book they lifted their yang form from

    i can tell from personal experience all they did was rip off forms from books and then teach tme to their studentsahahhaha

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  8. #13163
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    Stepping should be secure and like it is suctioning the floor/ground
    Ankle to knee to hip to waist to spine to shoulder to elbow to hand
    punching should be as natural as walking
    MA consissts of thrusting, kicking punching locking turning and throwing
    all CMA consists of the Yin Yang or pos/neg of the technique . All CMA have the EYES or stare however you want to say it. The wording is different but all techniques or Chi emanates from the Dan Tien.

    Hey have you heard of the ancient Greek MA Baklava it is so full of energy or honey you can fight forever. Just a bad joke to lighten things up a bit. KC
    Umm, no. None of this answered any of the 4 questions.

  9. #13164
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    SAL you need to clarify what you want As this is a portion of what I was taught, You asked about stepping I answered it ,: light but secure with foundation . there is no stopping in MA the bio mechanics are based upon the above principles with with joints aligned at their strongest point. The Low movements open from the Kua I really am not sure what youi are asking but all depends on the 4 principles and 8 rules. KC
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  10. #13165
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    Your 4 questions is like asking what is the best spaghetti , different cook, different recipe KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  11. #13166
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    KC,
    Those four questions that Sal asked do have a common answer for all systems that claim the content SD does. It is not a different chef, different recipe situation. It's basic foundational knowledge of CMA.

    Having seen SD first hand, it is a mish mash of stuff, often contradictory material and has a strong JMA stamp on it. This is common in SE Asia - for a variety of reasons you can read about in Don Draeger's Weapons and Fighting Arts of Indonesia. (there are also closely preserved systems - heck Mustika Kwitang Silat is pure early 1900's Nanquan)

    Not coming close on those four questions after decades in SD simply demonstrates that SD is not 'pure' CMA, nor is it really CMA anymore. It is it's own thing.

    Good or bad, I leave that up to you to decide.
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  12. #13167
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    Asking a vague question and expecting a verbatum answer does not indicate it doesnt exist or isnt in SD. It may not be demonstrated but it is there. I researched my answers before giving them and on 3 different occasions the answers were confirmed by Chinese Masters and sources. It is like me asking what is the primary shoulder depressor while doing a push up/ 100 therapists at least 10 different ways to say it. KC
    Not meaning to argue but 15 years of my background is in JMA and SD aint that.
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  13. #13168
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    Then you tell us what is the answer then. Bcause 5 Chinese masters and sources cant be WONG haha KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  14. #13169
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    Umm, no. None of this answered any of the 4 questions.

    You know since you're so close and you are so sad to see all these SD people wasting their time why not head up to the CSC in New York and challenge Thad Wong. Since Thad does everything wrong you should be able to take care of him in a few minutes and show all his students just how wrong he is.

  15. #13170
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    Sal

    Try this then
    any good style of martial art should have a healthy balance of both internal and external principles, and no martial art, regardless of its technique or training, is purely internal or external. These two principles are inseparable, from the readily observable to the unperceivable, in a dynamic, mutually dependent relationship.

    Hard and soft, relaxed and taught, up and down, opening and closing, thought and action. . . Yin and Yang- principles manifest in the training theories and methods, techniques, and philosophy of all styles of martial art; however, one should not become too dogmatic about use of this terminology

    Stepping should be fast but rooted . If this isnt correct then I am at a loss as to what the heck you want. KC
    BTW this is what I have said and included the 8 principles and 4 methods.
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