Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

Sal, I agree and have for quite some time that SD is not pure CMA. So then, what's your beef? And you don't think you're an elitist? From the tone of your posts, only one whose movements display the core principals of CMA, as you identify them, apparently can fight. Everyone else is "zombies" or "dead men walking."

And I understand that stances are transitional movements. You can search my posts and find posts where I was saying the same thing as you. The horse stance is a foundational stance and trained for power and stability but it is nothing more than a snap-shot of a moment in time of fulid movement from one posture to another.

What if I called Shaolin-do "The' family kung tao"? Would you find that less offensive?

[Sal Canzonieri]

sigh......

Yes, they were being polite.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Don't tell me or post on this board about it.

If you are so concerned that people are being cheated by SD then do something in person. As I already suggested go up to New York and talk with Thad Wong. Or better yet go down to Lexington and get in Master Leonard's face and demand that he stop cheating people!

SD is a snake eating its own tail.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal, I agree and have for quite some time that SD is not pure CMA. So then, what's your beef? And you don't think you're an elitist? From the tone of your posts, only one whose movements display the core principals of CMA, as you identify them, apparently can fight. Everyone else is "zombies" or "dead men walking."

And I understand that stances are transitional movements. You can search my posts and find posts where I was saying the same thing as you. The horse stance is a foundational stance and trained for power and stability but it is nothing more than a snap-shot of a moment in time of fulid movement from one posture to another.

What if I called Shaolin-do "The' family kung tao"? Would you find that less offensive?

Sure, I and others involved with Shaolin would find that less offensive.

The Way of Shaolin is false advertising.

Call it Chinese Karate even, some have.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Let me say one thing.

I've been in the hospital for like a month, I've been out a few weeks. I had major surgery in my abdomen, huge scar from them cutting through my abs and removing a whole section of material (food poisoning from bad fish infected a section of my intestines).
I've taken no pain killers since I have been home.

I am in serious constant sharp pain as it all heals up.

Yet, as I practice my routines, I feel no pain whatsoever, I even showed my surgeon at a follow up appointment, since he didn't want me to do any form of exercise or lifting for the next few months.

No pain when doing routines, why? Because of correct CMA body mechanics.

AND, I was told that from October last year to when I got this last operation (2nd) I was in danger of dying at any moment if there was an organ rupture and the material could have infected the whole inside area.
They said it was a miracle, since they didn't know things were that bad til they opened my a few weeks ago, and I had been doing my CMA teaching and practicing and jumping around on stage with my band. At any moment any of that could have caused the rupture.
BUT, thanks to all the Shaolin Neigong I practiced, nothing had happened. In fact some weird thing occurred inside that prevented it, even the surgeon called it a miracle.

But, I know it was because I practiced correct CMA body mechanics and core movement.

It wasn't "humility" that saved me. It was CMA.

Now I am healing with no pain killers and already out and about and driving and so on, only two weeks since the surgery.

Elitist? What does that even mean here? Why even say it? I think I am better than you because I know something you don't? To even say that means that you are projecting and feeling "inferior". It automatically says that you know it is something SD doesn't know. You don't have to feel bad about it, nor do you have to think that I think I am "better" than you. Especially since I have never said even once "I am better than you all because I know something you don't".
No, that is people feeling guilty or foolish projecting this on to my words"
When I have ever said anything to make people personally "feel hurt"?
It's a case of either "the truth burns" or "if the shoe fits, wear it".

All I have ever said is, "SD is not teaching correct CMA body mechanics and core principles". That's all my words said or meant.
That's it. Nothing personal. Nothing Elite. Nothing Un-humble.

So far no one has ever proven to me otherwise.
There's plenty of ex-SD that have agreed over the years though.

[goju]

lol what cracks me up the most are the rogue sd guys who think they by somehow leaving the sd pyramid scheme will make the crap they learned legit


you can dress up a donkey like a zebra but it still aint no zebra

[Sal Canzonieri]

lol what cracks me up the most are the rogue sd guys who think they by somehow leaving the sd pyramid scheme will make the crap they learned legit


you can dress up a donkey like a zebra but it still aint no zebra

Truth. Thanks to the internet, any one of these guys can say "hey, I quit SD, I want to find real CMA to master, can anyone recommend places?"
And tons of people will gladly help them out, even offer to teach them maybe to get their foundation in order; no one would make fun of them.

Would this thread ever had to have been started if SD wasn't questionable?
No, something impeccable would obviously not be a target.

[goju]

exactly this thread would not be anywhere this big nor would there be countless mile long threads all over martial art forums questioning sd legitimacy is there wasnt something going on

i could see one or two comments here and there but this?!? lol!

[bawang]

i think the shaolin do people have invested too much money time and effort, and friendship into their organiczation to leave it.

i dont blame sin the. he as a poor immagrant man trying to make it in america, trying to find the american dream, and he did it. sin the has 100000 times more money than me. if i was in his shoeds 50 ish years ago i would scam the sh1t out of his students too.

i think sin the really never expected the real shaolin to recover and be rebuilt, no one really did
a lot chinese martial arts for hundreds of years claim shaolin but have no proof or relation. the difference we live in the modern information times with internet so we can easily find the truth

[brucereiter]

All I have ever said is, "SD is not teaching correct CMA body mechanics and core principles". That's all my words said or meant.
That's it. Nothing personal. Nothing Elite. Nothing Un-humble.

So far no one has ever proven to me otherwise.
There's plenty of ex-SD that have agreed over the years though.

hi sal,

i think the above statements you made are incorrect.

i agree with the "haters" of sd / csc etc that much of what is offered and shown even by high ranking people in the system is lacking (thats nice for sucks) but there are a few exceptional people in the system. dont let us forget the history ... it is pretty crazy and the politics wow!!!!!! but despite all of that bull**** there is a bit of material that is great in my opinion. i value the tai chi chuan i was taught by the atlanta part of sd by gary grooms. you can see some examples of it on youtube. i would like to know what you think?

[bawang]

hi brucereiter

you youtube videos look pretty cool but they are taiji and xingyi. im confused

[Judge Pen]

hi brucereiter

you youtube videos look pretty cool but they are taiji and xingyi. im confused

SD teaches taiji and xingyi. Most don't do a good job teaching all of the details or really focusing on really making it work, but there are exceptions.

If SD is its own creature--an amolgamation of CMA, JMA and IMA--together to create a unique style, then how can you say it's principals are wrong? The material that comprises SD, like tai chi and xingyi, might not be correct as it would be if pure, but it is its own creature now. It has evolved into something else. Its different from what you know to be real tai chi or xingyi, and you can make a real argument to not call it tai chi or xingyi anymore, but it is our version. Call it The' family tai chi or xingyi.

SD emphasises short form--tan tui like forms--early ikn SD. Those principles, stances, footwork and methods of power-generation--permiate all of SD after that. Why, its the language in which every other form is taught. It is our context into learning every other style. when we learn new forms from new styles, this foundational material is still present in each of them. It looks different, feels different and works different to some degree. However, many of the core principles of tai chi are there.

But it works. It works differently and I understand people get upset with labels that are placed on it.

[kwaichang]

What we have here is Sal who wouldnt even follow MD's advise even though his life could be in jeopardy, BTW Sal just because something doesnt hurt doesnt mean it isnt causing damage to the site of the operation. They tell you not to move certain ways or lift for a reason. Stress on tissues causes increased scarring and csn later cause a proplem like fascia restrictions etc. No amount of CMA training will prevent that. With a rotator cuff repair healing has to occur that is the reason for the sling. Goju on the other hand just is like a flea irritating , also what is taught is dependent upon any one teacher, transition, stances heck no one teaches stances like Master Mullins etc. But like someone said and early on I do not question your knowledge of CMA , you are like this friend of mine he has read and saw so much he has learned alot. BTW did Mongolian Wrestling predate Shuaijao I read somewhere that is where both judo and Shuaijao had its origins?? So Sal what are the 5 sources of power in JMA and how are the demonstrated in SD?? KC

[brucereiter]

hi brucereiter

you youtube videos look pretty cool but they are taiji and xingyi. im confused

thanks ...
the csc atlanta where i learned have the "internal" and "external" programs split up so you can learn just "internal" or where you can learn "external" where at some level you would be taught internal too.

does that help the confusion?

[brucereiter]

If SD is its own creature--an amolgamation of CMA, JMA and IMA--together to create a unique style, then how can you say it's principals are wrong? The material that comprises SD, like tai chi and xingyi, might not be correct as it would be if pure, but it is its own creature now. It has evolved into something else. Its different from what you know to be real tai chi or xingyi, and you can make a real argument to not call it tai chi or xingyi anymore, but it is our version. Call it The' family tai chi or xingyi.

i just call the tai chi chuan practice i do a "variation of cmc tai chi chuan"