Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Sal Canzonieri]

hi sal,

i think the above statements you made are incorrect.

i agree with the "haters" of sd / csc etc that much of what is offered and shown even by high ranking people in the system is lacking (thats nice for sucks) but there are a few exceptional people in the system. dont let us forget the history ... it is pretty crazy and the politics wow!!!!!! but despite all of that bull**** there is a bit of material that is great in my opinion. i value the tai chi chuan i was taught by the atlanta part of sd by gary grooms. you can see some examples of it on youtube. i would like to know what you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9tQ70MQI-w

There are fundamental things wrong shown.
Yang teachers would cringe. Two giant body mechanics movements incorrect.


This is like karate Yang TJQ. it compromises what makes Yang and all TJQ work in the first place. And, like I said about my four questions concerning SD not knowing the answers to them, the answers to each one of my four questions is violated (simply not done) in the movements shown.

Here's some remedial lessons (seriously, please, can you even see why this is correct Yang and his is fundamentally wrong):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNStVR6BANQ

Groom's not only got the posture incorrect, but the transitional internal movements are done wrong, for the wrong reason, and missing the the transitional movement that makes it work in the first place, its too external.

Look at real Yang TJQ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97kMU3WgmtE (this starts with brush knee first)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pna9ajZHKY (TRADITIONAL YANG from the Yang family itself - at 2:44 look at the brush knee postures and movements)

Okay, at this point, I give up, I don't want to discuss SD at all.

Do everything wrong, I don't care.

[BoulderDawg]

Okay, at this point, I give up, I don't want to discuss SD at all.

Do everything wrong, I don't care.

This guy is really no different that some crazy guy preaching hellfire and damation on the streets.

"If you don't follow the one true way you will burn in a lake of fire."

He says he's not going to discuss it but wait and see he'll be back with a post before the end of the day. CMA is his religion and if people don't follow it........

I would still like to see the guy get in Master Leonard's face.

[brucereiter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9tQ70MQI-w

There are fundamental things wrong shown.
Yang teachers would cringe. Two giant body mechanics movements incorrect.


This is like karate Yang TJQ. it compromises what makes Yang and all TJQ work in the first place. And, like I said about my four questions concerning SD not knowing the answers to them, the answers to each one of my four questions is violated (simply not done) in the movements shown.

Here's some remedial lessons (seriously, please, can you even see why this is correct Yang and his is fundamentally wrong):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNStVR6BANQ

Groom's not only got the posture incorrect, but the transitional internal movements are done wrong, for the wrong reason, and missing the the transitional movement that makes it work in the first place, its too external.

Look at real Yang TJQ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97kMU3WgmtE (this starts with brush knee first)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pna9ajZHKY (TRADITIONAL YANG from the Yang family itself - at 2:44 look at the brush knee postures and movements)

Okay, at this point, I give up, I don't want to discuss SD at all.

Do everything wrong, I don't care.

sal,

i asked you to address my videos. you made comments about other peoples videos, did you even watch mine?.

what fundamental things are wrong with my tai chi chuan as shown on my youtube videos?

dont give up. you are the person who made blanket statements. please back them up.

[bodhi warrior]

Some of the things Sal says about our taichi is the same thing yang zhenduo and fu zhongwen said about cheng man ching's form. From a yang family perspective they thought his form was way off. But look what William c c chen has done with it. Point is it doesn't matter what Sal thinks. If it works in self defense,it works.

[brucereiter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9tQ70MQI-w

There are fundamental things wrong shown.
Yang teachers would cringe. Two giant body mechanics movements incorrect.


This is like karate Yang TJQ. it compromises what makes Yang and all TJQ work in the first place. And, like I said about my four questions concerning SD not knowing the answers to them, the answers to each one of my four questions is violated (simply not done) in the movements shown.

Here's some remedial lessons (seriously, please, can you even see why this is correct Yang and his is fundamentally wrong):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNStVR6BANQ

Groom's not only got the posture incorrect, but the transitional internal movements are done wrong, for the wrong reason, and missing the the transitional movement that makes it work in the first place, its too external.

Look at real Yang TJQ:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97kMU3WgmtE (this starts with brush knee first)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pna9ajZHKY (TRADITIONAL YANG from the Yang family itself - at 2:44 look at the brush knee postures and movements)

Okay, at this point, I give up, I don't want to discuss SD at all.

Do everything wrong, I don't care.

this is the channel i was talking about.
this is me ... i would like to hear your comments. look objectively.

http://www.youtube.com/user/brucereiter
some yang tai chi practice.
http://www.youtube.com/user/brucerei.../9/ynXWQYo5ZFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvaC2h1X5qw

[Sal Canzonieri]

sal,

i asked you to address my videos. you made comments about other peoples videos, did you even watch mine?.

what fundamental things are wrong with my tai chi chuan as shown on my youtube videos?

dont give up. you are the person who made blanket statements. please back them up.

okay because you asked:

To start with, you don't have whole body movement, you move your arms independent of your dantian. Rule #1 of TJQ broken. In essence, you are just waving your hands and arms, no full body connection, no deep root, no emanation from the dantian to perform the movements, and lots more. TJQ is a process, your videos don't show it being done. And you are doing the same things wrong as I said that Grooms was doing in his video.

Not too bad for a beginner though, keep working.

here's some old timers you can study and hopefully you can see the difference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq2uHsUkwA8 (Yang TJQ)


SD never taught the foundational Songshan CMA sets (northern) that Shaolin derived internal martial arts developed from (TJQ, XY, BG), so I can't expect SD people to understand and know it.

Plus SD teaches modern times version of the TJQ sets, not the original long forms, nor the important training forms that TJQ people learn first. Nor the neigong sets that are necessary too.

[BoulderDawg]

okay because you asked:

To start with, you don't have whole body movement, you move your arms independent of your dantian. Rule #1 of TJQ broken. In essence, you are just waving your hands and arms, no full body connection, no deep root, no emanation from the dantian to perform the movements, and lots more. TJQ is a process, your videos don't show it being done. And you are doing the same things wrong as I said that Grooms was doing in his video.

Not too bad for a beginner though, keep working.

here's some old timers you can study and hopefully you can see the difference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq2uHsUkwA8 (Yang TJQ)


SD never taught the foundational Songshan CMA sets (northern) that Shaolin derived internal martial arts developed from (TJQ, XY, BG), so I can't expect SD people to understand and know it.

Plus SD teaches modern times version of the TJQ sets, not the original long forms, nor the important training forms that TJQ people learn first. Nor the neigong sets that are necessary too.

What did I tell you.

You know that people told Ty Cobb he could never hit because his stance was wrong!

[Sal Canzonieri]

Some of the things Sal says about our taichi is the same thing yang zhenduo and fu zhongwen said about cheng man ching's form. From a yang family perspective they thought his form was way off. But look what William c c chen has done with it. Point is it doesn't matter what Sal thinks. If it works in self defense,it works.

No, its not the same, this shows your ignorance.

Cheng Man Ching didn't do what Grooms does immediately at :44 in to that video I linked to. And William CC Chen, who I know, never would ever do that either, nor the other things shown.

Plus, Cheng Man Ching style?
Ha, the guy was an alcoholic, and a proven fraud in Taiwan. Do the research.
Just because people started with CMC taiji (since in the early days there wasn't anyone else teaching in the USA openly yet), doesn't mean that they didn't continue to learn more from others after their first exposure. William CC Chen learned from other people too, much better people. And, he already had practiced CMA for a very long time and could adjust whatever was foundational incorrect to bring it back into alignment.

[Judge Pen]

here's some old timers you can study and hopefully you can see the difference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq2uHsUkwA8 (Yang TJQ)

Sal, are you supposed to lean that far forward when doing Yang Tai Chi?

[BoulderDawg]

I'm just wondering if this guy consider his form of Kung Fu (or any other form for that matter) as an actual art.

[Sal Canzonieri]

What did I tell you.

The truth burns the brain washed zombies.

Since your SD comes from fake sources, here's a Hong Kong movie quote from "return of the 36 chambers" that fits:

"Your kung fu is no good, you must go back to Shaolin".


Ha.

[Judge Pen]

The truth burns the brain washed zombies.

Since your SD comes from fake sources, here's a Hong Kong movie quote from "return of the 36 chambers" that fits:

"Your kung fu is no good, you must go back to Shaolin".


Ha.

Did you miss my question? It seems to me, a novice, that the master in the video you posted is leaning too far forward. It seems that this would make it easier to unbalance, but that's to my untrained eye. I was asking for your comment.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Sal, are you supposed to lean that far forward when doing Yang Tai Chi?

There's different heights depending how deep your stances are.
Like in Bagua Zhang, there is high, middle, and low basins.

Plus, he's not actually leaning, there's a direct line from his heel to his head, his totally rooted.
SD doesn't understand these things, hence they don't teach it.

Also, depends on when and where the Yang comes from. Yang from Yang Lu Chan's home village is older (more like Wu taiji, who were Yang Lu Chan's first students) and before it was modified for the Manchurians in Beijing.

Regardless of angle or height, the movements are all done correct, regardless of sub-style or variations. All the rules of Taiji, that make it work in the first place, are never broken.

Check out that guys channel on YouTube, he has dozen's of videos of all the most well known and best Taiji teaches from the past, you can see that regardless of style or sub-style none of the fundamentals are ever broken.

[Judge Pen]

There's different heights depending how deep your stances are.
Like in Bagua Zhang, there is high, middle, and low basins.

Plus, he's not actually leaning, there's a direct line from his heel to his head, his totally rooted.
SD doesn't understand these things, hence they don't teach it.

Also, depends on when and where the Yang comes from. Yang from Yang Lu Chan's home village is older (more like Wu taiji, who were Yang Lu Chan's first students) and before it was modified for the Manchurians in Beijing.

Regardless of angle or height, the movements are all done correct, regardless of sub-style or variations. All the rules of Taiji, that make it work in the first place, are never broken.

Check out that guys channel on YouTube, he has dozen's of videos of all the most well known and best Taiji teaches from the past, you can see that regardless of style or sub-style none of the fundamentals are ever broken.

I see that there is a direct line from his rear heel to his head, but that doesn't make one rooted. SD does teach these things Sal and I do understand them. I was also an offensive lineman in high school and I understand very well how easily it is to unbalance someone if their weight is forward. You can have a heel down, but still have too much weight going forward which is what it looks like to me in the video.

You want to see good tai chi principals in action, watch offensive line play in the passing game. The understand root, sensitivity, redirection and "peng"

[Sal Canzonieri]

What did I tell you.

You know that people told Ty Cobb he could never hit because his stance was wrong!

And, if you thought that was something other than beginner Taiji being shown by that guy, you are sure in a sorry lame state of delusional psychosis.

He's being sincere and working hard on improving his form, I commend the guy for doing that.

But you are just plain ignorant and have been so completely brainwashed, especially since you have a vested interest in keeping up the SD charade, that there is no use bothering with you.
Why butt in to any discussion? You never provide anything constructive to say.

Just baby talk, babbling boob stuff.