View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #13291
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Lexington, Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by themeecer View Post
    Baqualin, I may swing by your internal class in Lexington on Saturday. I held our first internal only class this past Tuesday and I want to pick up some pointers. What are you all currently working on? I'd like to see the progression of brand new internal students in your classes someday.

    I have had reservations about teaching our internal separately and am still warming up to the idea. I explained to our new students that this was a work in progress and the curriculum order was still being fleshed out. They assumed that was a call for them to put input into it because one student told me he wasn't interested in the martial arts part of it ... he just wanted to be artistic in waving his arms around. Another student wanted me to abandon my ideas of teaching the class at our gym and instead teach at the Silver Ladies group in the local Y. Another who had our tai chi several years ago was frustrated that what I was doing didn't look like the form she had learned, I explained that I knew that ... we were doing the warm ups. So with the patience of Job, I smiled and continued on.

    I really do care about my students and want to improve my ability at conveying the material in the most effective manner. I am always open to new drills and training ideas. I wish this was a medium where we could discuss things like this instead of arguing about gi's and lineage 24/7.
    Please do!!
    BQ

  2. #13292

    Other masters.....

    NAME A.K.A. SPECIALTY
    Previously posted by BQ


    Ie Chang Ming (Tie Chang Sang Ren) Herbs & Acupuncture, Iron Bone/palm/shin, Staff, Sword (broad & Jian) Daggers Spear Monkey Drunken Immortals, Se Ch’uan (Snake) Tai Chi Pa Kua Hsing Ie Lu Hsing

    Liu Su Peng (Sen Pien Sow) Tai Peng (bird System), Chain Whips Rope Dart

    Je Jou (Shiao) Fu Long Fist , Hua, Mantis, Tiger

    *Su Te’ Tju Ta (Little Brother) Mien Ch’uan (Cotton Fist), Chi Qong Meditation , Ban Lian Hua Kuen

    Tju Ta 1988 Tai Chi festival in mainland China did Dbl Mulan Fan

    **Qui Kwong (Liem Qui Qwong) Herbs & Acupuncture Chin Na, Shuai Chao
    **Tjie Tiong (Djie Tiong) Tai Chi, Pa Kua Hsing Ie ,Ground Dragon

  3. #13293
    Just wondering:

    Some good points were made about The' and the fact that he's never told a completely factual story.

    I was just wondering if anyone (totally independant from SD) has never traveled to Bandung to try to track down some facts.

    And what about these masters that were just mentioned? Surely were would still be a few students of there's around.

    In any case, I would just be satisfied to see some type of government records (Did Ie pay taxes, did he own property, did he drive a car, did he register to vote, was there a death certificate issued) to prove that he even existed.

  4. #13294
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    Knoxville Tennessee
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    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderDawg View Post
    Just wondering:

    Some good points were made about The' and the fact that he's never told a completely factual story.

    I was just wondering if anyone (totally independant from SD) has never traveled to Bandung to try to track down some facts.

    And what about these masters that were just mentioned? Surely were would still be a few students of there's around.

    In any case, I would just be satisfied to see some type of government records (Did Ie pay taxes, did he own property, did he drive a car, did he register to vote, was there a death certificate issued) to prove that he even existed.
    Was Ie his real name?

    I think I remember Mas Judt referenced Qui Kwong as having a lineage students in Inodnesia.

    I'll tell you what, if I win the lottery, I'll travel to Indoneisa and do the research myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. #13295
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    Was Ie his real name?

    I think I remember Mas Judt referenced Qui Kwong as having a lineage students in Inodnesia.

    I'll tell you what, if I win the lottery, I'll travel to Indoneisa and do the research myself.
    I honestly don't think it would be rocket science to research. It's only been 40 years since he died...or 30 something...they can't even agree on that.

    But if he ran a school then there should still be plenty of students of his out there. What surprises me is that there isn't someone in the martial arts community in Bandung who was interested enough to ask a few questions. I know I would be if I heard there was some guy in Indonesia claiming he had all of this lineage from Boulder.

  6. #13296
    KC,
    The Yang tai chi long form that SD has in its repertoire, just like all tai chi forms, can theoretically trace its lineage back to the semi-mythical Zhang Sang Feng, just as the 'tai chi by committee' short form that SD uses. Whether Zhang really existed is a matter of some debate. More importantly, the SD tai chi long form can be traced DIRECTLY back to Cheng Man Ching's variation of Yang Style. Cheng's form is almost exactly that of the SD form, and it's different than the original 108 Yang long form.

  7. #13297
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    Mar 2005
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    America
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    1,860
    Watched 3 versions of Tai Chi of Chings origins they were not what I learned in SD KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  8. #13298
    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    Watched 3 versions of Tai Chi of Chings origins they were not what I learned in SD KC
    do you mean "cheng man ching"?

    this is a video of cheng man ching. are you telling me that this is not the form we do in sd?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl2mvyjHYS0

    can you show a example of what the tai chi you learned in sd is like for reference?

    the cmc form is the only one of many many different yang tai chi chuan forms that matches up. ??????
    best,

    bruce

    Happy indeed we live,
    friendly amidst the hostile.
    Amidst hostile men
    we dwell free from hatred.

    http://youtube.com/profile?user=brucereiter

  9. #13299
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucereiter View Post
    do you mean "cheng man ching"?

    this is a video of cheng man ching. are you telling me that this is not the form we do in sd?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl2mvyjHYS0

    can you show a example of what the tai chi you learned in sd is like for reference?

    the cmc form is the only one of many many different yang tai chi chuan forms that matches up. ??????
    You are correct!

  10. #13300
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderDawg View Post
    I honestly don't think it would be rocket science to research. It's only been 40 years since he died...or 30 something...they can't even agree on that.

    But if he ran a school then there should still be plenty of students of his out there. What surprises me is that there isn't someone in the martial arts community in Bandung who was interested enough to ask a few questions. I know I would be if I heard there was some guy in Indonesia claiming he had all of this lineage from Boulder.
    All of the original teachers except for one has passed on....if you really want to know more you can start with the White Lotus Society in Bandung....GMIe & GMS are very well known in Bandung circles.
    BQ

  11. #13301
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderDawg View Post
    I honestly don't think it would be rocket science to research. It's only been 40 years since he died...or 30 something...they can't even agree on that.

    But if he ran a school then there should still be plenty of students of his out there. What surprises me is that there isn't someone in the martial arts community in Bandung who was interested enough to ask a few questions. I know I would be if I heard there was some guy in Indonesia claiming he had all of this lineage from Boulder.
    Do you really thing that they care?
    BQ

  12. #13302
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    Jul 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    NAME A.K.A. SPECIALTY
    Previously posted by BQ


    Ie Chang Ming (Tie Chang Sang Ren) Herbs & Acupuncture, Iron Bone/palm/shin, Staff, Sword (broad & Jian) Daggers Spear Monkey Drunken Immortals, Se Ch’uan (Snake) Tai Chi Pa Kua Hsing Ie Lu Hsing

    Liu Su Peng (Sen Pien Sow) Tai Peng (bird System), Chain Whips Rope Dart

    Je Jou (Shiao) Fu Long Fist , Hua, Mantis, Tiger

    *Su Te’ Tju Ta (Little Brother) Mien Ch’uan (Cotton Fist), Chi Qong Meditation , Ban Lian Hua Kuen

    Tju Ta 1988 Tai Chi festival in mainland China did Dbl Mulan Fan

    **Qui Kwong (Liem Qui Qwong) Herbs & Acupuncture Chin Na, Shuai Chao
    **Tjie Tiong (Djie Tiong) Tai Chi, Pa Kua Hsing Ie ,Ground Dragon
    Thanks...tired of posting things over and over.
    BQ

  13. #13303
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Whippany NJ, USA
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    1,552
    Now you people are talking history and this is much more interesting.

    Look, I apologize for being pompous and all, and I would like to call a truce.

    I'd like to help you guys trace the SD forms and their origins. I have almost all this info in my archives. I started doing this for someone from SD way back in the 1980s.

    For example, the Meteor Fist routine. I have archive info on that super rare routine. I know some of you were asking me last year if I had info on that set. I do have it.

    If you want my help, I'm willing to do so.
    We can put aside our differences in the name of research, yes?

    Show me a routine and I will provide you with reference material that contains that routine that you can use to compare with what you do.
    Perhaps it will help you to brush up on the exact movements and postures, in case over time they got mixed up or some bits got lost.
    You can PM me that link if you don't want everyone else to see it.

    Let me know, thanks.

  14. #13304
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    If you want my help, I'm willing to do so.
    We can put aside our differences in the name of research, yes?

    Show me a routine and I will provide you with reference material that contains that routine that you can use to compare with what you do.
    Perhaps it will help you to brush up on the exact movements and postures, in case over time they got mixed up or some bits got lost.
    You can PM me that link if you don't want everyone else to see it.

    Let me know, thanks.
    Sal, now that's what I am talking about. I agree 100%.

    I have started doing that for some of the forms that I teach. Sometimes I prefer the way we do it, sometimes I like how other people do it. I try to retain both versions in my head. Some of my students who have trained previously at other SD schools do the same. Instead of letting them get discouraged when they have to relearn a form I simply point out that it gives them more variations and ways to think about the form. Sometimes the changes are simple like leaving out a temple block here or there, other times the changes are more drastic.

    Ok ... I'll throw one out here. SD's walking the circle, in Pa Qua, is like walking through mud, stepping high off the ground and placing the foot back down while maintaining a 'hollow' in the foot. Most other schools do a sliding step as they walk the circle. I like doing both versions, depending on the speed I am doing the form in. Seen any other groups do this?

    PS. I am sitting here in my Cobra Kai Johnny costume I just got done piecing together for Halloween and I am totally feeling like the king of the demo.
    themeecer actually shares a lot of the passion that Bruce Lee had about adopting techniques into your own way of 'expressing yourself.'
    -shaolinarab
    (Nicest thing ever said about me on these boards.)

  15. #13305

    Hey Sal

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    Now you people are talking history and this is much more interesting.

    Look, I apologize for being pompous and all, and I would like to call a truce.

    I'd like to help you guys trace the SD forms and their origins. I have almost all this info in my archives. I started doing this for someone from SD way back in the 1980s.

    For example, the Meteor Fist routine. I have archive info on that super rare routine. I know some of you were asking me last year if I had info on that set. I do have it.

    If you want my help, I'm willing to do so.
    We can put aside our differences in the name of research, yes?

    Show me a routine and I will provide you with reference material that contains that routine that you can use to compare with what you do.
    Perhaps it will help you to brush up on the exact movements and postures, in case over time they got mixed up or some bits got lost.
    You can PM me that link if you don't want everyone else to see it.

    Let me know, thanks.
    I would like to see what you have ...oh and I forgive you for being a pompous @$$....

    Do tell us about the Meteor Fist routines.....

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