View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #13726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    but when we do those forms, we typically do not kick the hand unless the kick is a straight leg front kick or an inside or outside cresent kick. I still believe the kicking the hand is more for conditioning, flexibility, focus and performance affect. With the application if it is the simultaneous strike, then kicking the hand is not necessary. If it is "pulling the head toward the hand" then the form should have the motion of also moving the hand toward the foot.
    JP just invented the correct and passed it off as an ancient secret.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  2. #13727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Noob View Post
    Exactly! There was an opportunity to step back and ensure that the product was, to borrow some business lingo, more forthrightly branded and marketed without, in my opinion, doing any more damage than was done by the public availibility of the deposition itself. But circling the wagons and then calling people who like to be informed about what they choose to spend their money on ne'er-do-wells or busybodys is just insulting..
    Leonard =

    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  3. #13728
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Leonard =

    That picture is so horrible and funny at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  4. #13729
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    JP just invented the correct and passed it off as an ancient secret.
    As long as its correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. #13730
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar...
    Yes, but even then, it can be named Monica.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  6. #13731

    What it all means.

    I myself have read the deposition and followed all of the comments on this board.
    I do not know GM Sin personally, nor have I met him. What I do know is that I have nothing but the utmost respect and trust in my Master, as well as his Master. Regardless of what the comments about SD are (and there are many), I know that my daughter and I have only just started in it; of course this is the first formal instruction (besides our instruction in boxing, and my brief run in the amateur boxing circuit) we have had in any martial art, and both of us have noticed a big difference in our level of conditioning as well as our ability to defend ourselves when we spar together. The foundational techniques that we have been taught and guided in have proved phenomenal so far, and through it all our teacher (Master) has had the patience to correct many of our mistakes in technique and application. We will continue to train in SD, and if we can continue to improve we just might be able prove ourselves worthy of the level of instruction and dedication that our teacher provides us. My daughter and I can only hope to emulate our Master, given that we remain as dedicated to him as he is to teaching us.

  7. #13732

    Awesome

    Well said, keep up your training!

  8. #13733
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    Quote Originally Posted by nautavac View Post
    I myself have read the deposition and followed all of the comments on this board.
    I do not know GM Sin personally, nor have I met him. What I do know is that I have nothing but the utmost respect and trust in my Master, as well as his Master. Regardless of what the comments about SD are (and there are many), I know that my daughter and I have only just started in it; of course this is the first formal instruction (besides our instruction in boxing, and my brief run in the amateur boxing circuit) we have had in any martial art, and both of us have noticed a big difference in our level of conditioning as well as our ability to defend ourselves when we spar together. The foundational techniques that we have been taught and guided in have proved phenomenal so far, and through it all our teacher (Master) has had the patience to correct many of our mistakes in technique and application. We will continue to train in SD, and if we can continue to improve we just might be able prove ourselves worthy of the level of instruction and dedication that our teacher provides us. My daughter and I can only hope to emulate our Master, given that we remain as dedicated to him as he is to teaching us.
    You hope that you and your daughter will emulate someone who has devotion to a fraud? And you hope to learn a system that will sue you if you try to teach what you learned without their consent? If you have developed skill and endurance through training, that's nice, but what does it have to do with Sin? If you train you get better. It has nothing to do with a copywritten set of forms.
    Sith Legal Kung Fu is unstoppable.

  9. #13734

    so...

    the problem here is that Sin The created a system based on Shaolin Kung Fu and structured and simplified the basic training to achieve desired results and didnt tell everyone what part of it he created?? Did everyone really believe that this was all ancient material?

    Cmon?

    Really?


    If Sin The was/ is a master of Shaolin Kung fu, earning rank from Ie chang ming , then doesnt that mean that he should/ could be able to make and create like the masters of old?

    Now Sin The is a fraud and made up everything? I mean all the **** is made up anyway. What , just because you didnt know, or didnt ask or your teacher didnt tell you or even worse you assumed , now Sin The is a liar and a fraud?

    Since my first year I knew what was made by Sin the and what wasn't. If you ask and do a little research...

    I may no longer be in the system but I know a few people that are, not everything is as it appears to be. I will let you guys figure that out on your own.

    Also I believe its possible that the original Indonesian school may have had these masters with these teachings, but I also believe it is quite possible he didnt learn it all there so he was trying to recreate it here.....

    Maybe

  10. #13735

  11. #13736
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Are do-rags and sleevless lightning tees going to replace gis? I saw that they were hosting a kung tao seminar. I wonder if some schools are going to promote/lay claim to that heritage. I wonder how Sin The feels about that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  12. #13737
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    Are do-rags and sleevless lightning tees going to replace gis? I saw that they were hosting a kung tao seminar. I wonder if some schools are going to promote/lay claim to that heritage. I wonder how Sin The feels about that?
    Hilarious, right? Looked like it was really informative and a lot of fun. To be honest, here in Cali he always encourage us to have people from other arts come in and share what they knew. Like Shaolin of old . As a matter of fact he brought in some old jkd june fan kung fu. We used have someone come in from all over SFV for years coming to our school. It was the way I have always worked .
    Ben Mullins? Nice to meet you , Mark Wright.

  13. #13738
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    the problem here is that Sin The created a system based on Shaolin Kung Fu and structured and simplified the basic training to achieve desired results and didnt tell everyone what part of it he created?? Did everyone really believe that this was all ancient material?

    Cmon?

    Really?


    If Sin The was/ is a master of Shaolin Kung fu, earning rank from Ie chang ming , then doesnt that mean that he should/ could be able to make and create like the masters of old?

    Now Sin The is a fraud and made up everything? I mean all the **** is made up anyway. What , just because you didnt know, or didnt ask or your teacher didnt tell you or even worse you assumed , now Sin The is a liar and a fraud?

    Since my first year I knew what was made by Sin the and what wasn't. If you ask and do a little research...
    You mean, did everyone believe the advertising, and what the elder masters had been saying explicitly? Yes, it seems many people did, whether it was reasonable to believe them or not. When you put your trust in a teacher/authority figure, you want to assume they are not misleading you, so immediately being suspicious of all information they give you is not most people's first response. And who do you ask, when your teacher doesn't know anything, and the elder masters do nothing but tell legends about ancient monks? If you aren't privileged to know Sin The personally and live in the same town as him, how would a person find out anything? Why should anyone have to ask? Learning the origin and history of whatever you're practicing should be information explicitly given, to whatever degree that information is known. If a form is one invented by the founder of the system, that should be revealed at the time you are learning it, the information possibly to be on the quiz/test many systems have you take along with promotions. Maybe my expectations about this are unreasonable, having come from an Okinawan style where we had a book describing whatever was known about the origins of each kata. The kata that were invented by the style founder and his contemporaries were represented as such.
    It doesn't make the material worthless, it doesn't make it "fake" martial arts. It does make a bad impression when you either lie about or are ignorant about the material you are teaching. It is kind of a big deal for many people to hear that Sin The invented much of the material "from scratch"(in his words) which they were told was traditional shaolin martial arts. Maybe that isn't entirely true, maybe he just restructured traditional forms and/or put traditional techniques into new arrangements (that's what I think). But in that case, he lied under oath, and that doesn't look good either. One way or the other, lies have been told, by him and/or his senior students, if only lies of omission.
    I'm not saying Sin The is a terrible human being, I don't know him or have enough information. But I wouldn't trust anything he says anymore regarding the martial arts he has taught, much less anything any of his senior students say. If I were still a member of CSC or shaolin do at this point, I would have serious misgivings about continuing. At the very least, I would start questioning everything I had been told up to that point, and expect to get full discolusure on anything I was subsequently taught. And I would share any information I found with everyone around me, whether it came from the masters or not.
    "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow, you cannot pass!"

  14. #13739
    I totally agree with what you have said here. Plain and simple , it was a marketing strategy that got out of control. The origins of the art could be explained and defined very easily with minimal damage , I don't understand why they don't . I don't see anything wrong With sin the creating his own system, many teachers have. But to not fully disclose and lie about what it is that's wrong. I only hold sin the responsible for letting things get out of control and not stepping in right away to clear things up. Personally I think it was the affect it had on his ego that stopped him from doing do.

  15. Senior Master Gary Grooms, nationally renowned for his internal martial arts skills, will be coming to Denver Aug 17-19th to teach the fundamentals and intent of Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Hsing I. Please contact me for details. ALL martial artists are welcome. 2 full days of training with an amazing martial artist who has dedicated over 30 years to Kung Fu! Let your friends know! Testing for those that are ready is also available!

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