Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[shen ku]

its funny how this thing will go crazy and then quiet....... just wanted to ask of those of us training in SD, other then your teacher or linage master, who is your favorite master in SD,, please don't so why?

[bodhi warrior]

I was always a big fan of Eric smith. He had a handle on the internal side like nobody else. He moved very well also. If I had to pick a second place it'd probably be bob green. Very good also.

[shen ku]

i kind of call some of those guys the "old school masters" nothing against some of the younger master, don't take that the wrong way.

[kungfujunky]

Master Mullins and Master Grooms.

Both have a very strong grasp on the intent and martial aspects of our forms.

[shen ku]

love to watch mullins do forms , and i really enjoy grooms' talks on .. well anything i've heard him talk about...

[One student]

its funny how this thing will go crazy and then quiet....... just wanted to ask of those of us training in SD, other then your teacher or linage master, who is your favorite master in SD,, please don't so why?

From perspective I have, having been trained/taught to some extent directly by, and been in class with, GMS and his brother, and EML (probably the least of them) and SMs Green and Smith, as well as having some social contact with each (other than Master Hiang), I'd suggest they each have their unique traits. As is well known I think GM Sin is more laid back, easy going, very approachable, obviously the "eldest" of them. Hiang was very detail oriented, more demanding. EML's practical fighting knowledge is unquestionable, as is his dedication to teaching. ES is very intense on theory and depth of techniques, with a very intellectual approach. BG has a knowledge of the internal styles and chi, including what I'd say is the most practical health and fighting aspects of the internal arts (to my own observation), that is not truly known or appreciated by almost anyone except those closest to him, and his grasp of the practical aspects of animal styles I think is much wider known.

Those who became "masters" after them, can't speak to though.

[shen ku]

well what can anyone say about those guys,, you just went for the top on that one.. but there are many of the , i guess i can call them second genration old school masters that have alot to offer out art also.

[tattooedmonk]

Happy New Year!!! How is everyone doing? Hope you are all doing well....

no matter who you are....

I see the more things change the more they stay the same around here. Glad to see that we have some consistancy in this regard.

If anyone wants to discuss something of intrinsic value I will be more than happy to engage ,if not....forget it.

Is it me or is the art/ system being watered down more than usual?


Blessed be to all!!

[humbleman]

its funny how this thing will go crazy and then quiet....... just wanted to ask of those of us training in SD, other then your teacher or linage master, who is your favorite master in SD,, please don't so why?

Master James Halliday of Erie PA. A perfectionist but always helping you to learn.

[shen ku]

lol.. i crossed paths with him at that gathering a few years ago in the free for all.... lets just say i'll NEVER do that again...lol

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm not a master, but I am undoubtedly my favortie practitioner of SD. I think that my knowledge of SD is more important than anyone else's knowledge of SD, including that of any SD MAster.

This sounds like hubris, but in reality, it doesn't matter what anyone else knows about SD or how cool they sound when they talk about SD or techniques if I can't do jack **** for myself. When a Master says: "Do this just this way and you will get results," such a statement is meaningless as a guide to action unless I actually do it. It's not just about forms or applications, and which one is more important. I have to know when to do the forms or applications and why, but I can only know these things by doing. I know for a fact that Masters do not have a monopoly on this knowledge, and many Masters in many MA's have never actually engaged in the "doing." SD is no exception.

Teachers are just teachers. Nobody can teach you anything in the usual CMA tradition of "I have knowledge," now "grok" my knowledge "in its fullness. Now our knowledge is the same. Prize my knowledge because I am the source of your knowledge." CMA is riddled with Eastern gibberish concerning epistemology, knowledge, and routine. Who cares what a Master can do? I could take a ****ty wushu form, whip it into shape, and kick someone's butt with it no problem. Am I doing wushu? What the hell does that even mean? Am I doing SD? Of course not. What the hell would that even mean? A backsweep is a backsweep only when a backsweep sweeps a person off of his feet. Prob. what Bruce Lee was talking about when he said MA was self-expression.

You learn not by doing or repeating and then reflecting on abstractions. You learn by getting results. There's no such thing as "cheating" a technique. A technique works or it doesn't. There's no such thing as "now give me your hand and let me twist it in precisely this way to make it hurt" Rather, there is only "here's how I get your hand and wrench the mother-****er." Only I can get results for myself. Hence, I am the most important practitioner of martial arts in the world. Masters are just people with a couple of stripes and diamonds on their belts. Who cares what they know? How can you prize an individual for knowledge? Only you can know things.

I might be grateful to a Master, but I learn many things that Masters do not teach me. I apply these things, and these things teach others. The whole "ranking" system seems to me a remnant of slavish Eastern feudalism. Knowledge is not a scarce resource. Share and share alike.

Food for thought.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I've always liked SD b/c the school community doesn't have the rigidity of many traditional schools.

Some people who prize cultural differences as certificates of authenticity hate that communal aspect, but "traditionalists" always seem to be looking for self-importance by appropriating "knowledge" and then holding it over others' heads.

Seems to me like a big waste of time. Knowledge isn't owned. It's operated upon. All secrets, all techniques, all knowledge is open for operation. There is no ownership of martial arts.

[shen ku]

interesting.... let me ask you if you understand this statment...(just a thought)....... which is better or which do you view some people as having.... "having ten years experince or having one years experince ten times"

[Shaolin Wookie]

interesting.... let me ask you if you understand this statment...(just a thought)....... which is better or which do you view some people as having.... "having ten years experince or having one years experince ten times"

Who cares? I don't care what kind of knowledge it is better for other people to have.

As for the question itslef, it sounds like a fortune cookie and it lacks the profundity it wishes to command. Here's the key to all such questions like the one you just posed: "Or." "Or" creates false dilemmas. Take the "chicken or the egg" paradox... Why not exercise an "and"? The command of Conjunctions is fully in your grammatical power. As I said, knowledge is not a scarce resource.

[shen ku]

within your own statments is the answer to what i asked... i look at some people and for all i know you may very well be one of those that i look up and think "wow they have a real grasp of what their doing and what they know"... put you arguement seems full of ... selfworth..

my point was some people do things for ten years and only truly have one years worth of growth that they have just repeted doing over and over for ten years.. and some have ten years of continued growth and development.... do you not see this in people in life not just martial arts? do you not see those around you in your daily life that have not grown but have simple reached a level and just maintianed that? of course i have side tracked so... this has very little (as much does on here) with the subject...

but for some of us application (which i do spend much time on) is not the end all be all of our training ... i have said that if someones only goal is to defend ones self... well by a gun and practice a few times a month and carry it everywhere....
for the time you spend in training must surely have greater purpose.... then to simple be able to say.... i can woop somebodys a$$

but then again thats just my path.... and i am simple a fool... but a fool on a journey.....