View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #14026
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    I agree. As for Mullins, I meant which techniques did he demo that were traditional? Which did he demo that were not?

  2. #14027
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi warrior View Post
    I agree. As for Mullins, I meant which techniques did he demo that were traditional? Which did he demo that were not?
    Don't know. The Order didn't go into that much detail. Since I'm not training anymore I'm not in a position to ask them about all this.

    As for what other material is fabricated I would assume that any material that is only taught in SD is a prime suspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  3. #14028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Paximus View Post
    people get used to a certain lifestyle. If he suddenly said "well yeah it's all ancient and I guess i don't really own any of it" think of how much money he'd lose. On the other hand I doubt he's lying about fabricating the stuff, but I would imagine it's not just lower belt stuff. I read the whole thing today and He seemed pretty unsure of what he wanted to claim as real/fake and what he didn't want to claim. He knew if he said "yeah only white belt - black was made up" then the teacher in the lawsuit would just say "fine i'll teach all the other stuff".
    what's interesting is that the lower belt material (which we now know GM The created) has always been considerd lesser material. I don't know how many times I heard teachers say to newly minted black sashes "now you can start learning the good stuff"
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  4. #14029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Paximus View Post
    people get used to a certain lifestyle. If he suddenly said "well yeah it's all ancient and I guess i don't really own any of it" think of how much money he'd lose. On the other hand I doubt he's lying about fabricating the stuff, but I would imagine it's not just lower belt stuff. I read the whole thing today and He seemed pretty unsure of what he wanted to claim as real/fake and what he didn't want to claim. He knew if he said "yeah only white belt - black was made up" then the teacher in the lawsuit would just say "fine i'll teach all the other stuff".
    another thought. Most students quit before they get to black. (usually in the brown sash ranks) The created material is broken down very nicely for novice students. Made up or not it does an excellent job teaching fundamentals to new students. Its easier to learn and creates a nice incentive to encourage students to build upon a foundation. It also means that a teacher makes most of his money from teaching this created material. You can teach other stuff sure (Barry Van Over is making bank still and he is not teaching this material) but it has to be replaced with something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. #14030
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    aterial that he come up also.
    Q Well, did you have an agreement with him that he would not teach your copyrighted material and you would not teach his material?
    A Let me explain this. My material I cleared some and he had cleared some, too. But they are common bound material that is Shaolin
    Kung Fu. And so it is understood I teach my material and then Shaolin Kung Fu as well. As a matter of fact my material is around 50 something to 60 material, but Shaolin Kung Fu I taught over a hundred. So likewise, you know.
    MR. OLSON: Okay.

    This part confuses me. Hiang still teaches all the material up to black that sin teaches.

  6. #14031
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    Quite a shock still sorting it out, Guess I owe a lot of apologies. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  7. #14032
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    Cant open the links on Bullshido to read the pages any one want to post it on here? KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  8. #14033
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    Quite a shock still sorting it out, Guess I owe a lot of apologies. KC
    You don't need to apologize. I wanted to believe it was all legit. I really wanted to be wrong. The main thing to me is Sin lied to us. I actually liked the made up material, lol. If he had said this is a style I created based on my experience in Indonesia. I probably would still have trained there. But it wouldn't be the cash cow it is now. Look at how many people have poured thousands of dollars into this thinking they were learning authentic shaolin. We were scammed. Plain and simple.

  9. #14034
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    Cant open the links on Bullshido to read the pages any one want to post it on here? KC
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/atta...1&d=1330986799

  10. #14035
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi warrior View Post
    aterial that he come up also.
    Q Well, did you have an agreement with him that he would not teach your copyrighted material and you would not teach his material?
    A Let me explain this. My material I cleared some and he had cleared some, too. But they are common bound material that is Shaolin
    Kung Fu. And so it is understood I teach my material and then Shaolin Kung Fu as well. As a matter of fact my material is around 50 something to 60 material, but Shaolin Kung Fu I taught over a hundred. So likewise, you know.
    MR. OLSON: Okay.

    This part confuses me. Hiang still teaches all the material up to black that sin teaches.
    I didn't
    t understand that part either. And tai pang was supposed to be Hiangs specialty. I really need to see the exhibits which include the claimed copywritten material to see what is included.

    It seems like he is saying that 50 to 60 forms that he teaches are made up and he teaches that plus the Shannon material he learned. He doesn't teach Hiangs material. We know there are forms that Using has that are not supposed to be taught.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  11. #14036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    I didn't
    t understand that part either. And tai pang was supposed to be Hiangs specialty. I really need to see the exhibits which include the claimed copywritten material to see what is included.

    It seems like he is saying that 50 to 60 forms that he teaches are made up and he teaches that plus the Shannon material he learned. He doesn't teach Hiangs material. We know there are forms that Using has that are not supposed to be taught.
    "Shannon" = shaolin. . Stupid auto correct.

    I am curious to hear other sders weigh in on this. What are your opinions? Does this change the value you put in your training?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  12. #14037
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    My teacher began training in 1971, i had been told that Sin started teaching other things, longer forms, and then re-did things and came out with all of the short forms and such. To me i didn't start or do not continue to train because it its "shaolin". I know of many other "programs" out there that have made up everything they teach, from an educated back ground, so i don't have much of and issue with that. I do how ever wish that it had all been a little more out in the open. I would have know problem the idea of learning a foundation art, for this purpose "shaolin do", and then moveing into more traditional arts...?? but i do not value my lower material any less after reading all of this. I have learned alot from that material, and i do feel that it all came from a point of knowledge with a good intent, even if it has been poorly handled over the many hears
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  13. #14038
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    I too gained much from the training but Truth has more value than training to me, I wanted the "Real" Shaolin" not something made as a space filler. No matter how good, now at my age and after 21 years in the art the Journey continues for the Real Deal ! If there is one. So we will see what happens from here. What is real and from Master Ie I would like to do but not interested in the other so much at this point. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  14. #14039
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    turth is important. but to be honest i would have to say i may have learned more from the high number of times i have drilled the lower material then any other that i have learned, i have been doing this art for over 27 years, i have looked out side of it many times and have never seen anything that interested me more than it...?? some i know would say i am a fool, i was never looking for "shaolin".. lol when i started i wouldn't have had any idea what the word was let alone what the art of it was. From what i have seen in my time has made me believe that what ever shaolin was at one time it this world, it is no more.. not even the modern day monk make me believe that they have what once was shaolin. BUT i do believe that there are many parts of it that have been spread over many arts... including shaolin do... so i guess hand me another class of the coolaid because my journey is about my self and my path and not some long ago art that is legend and supposed to make me .........? oh wait what is it that training in only the trues of the true that we all go nuts over will make us??...

    On a side note i know of a teacher that has always said sin was fake but i resently learned that he is still teaching his students a lot of SD lower rank material, and he is a high ranking member of another style...??
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  15. #14040
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen ku View Post
    turth is important. but to be honest i would have to say i may have learned more from the high number of times i have drilled the lower material then any other that i have learned, i have been doing this art for over 27 years, i have looked out side of it many times and have never seen anything that interested me more than it...?? some i know would say i am a fool, i was never looking for "shaolin".. lol when i started i wouldn't have had any idea what the word was let alone what the art of it was. From what i have seen in my time has made me believe that what ever shaolin was at one time it this world, it is no more.. not even the modern day monk make me believe that they have what once was shaolin. BUT i do believe that there are many parts of it that have been spread over many arts... including shaolin do... so i guess hand me another class of the coolaid because my journey is about my self and my path and not some long ago art that is legend and supposed to make me .........? oh wait what is it that training in only the trues of the true that we all go nuts over will make us??...

    On a side note i know of a teacher that has always said sin was fake but i resently learned that he is still teaching his students a lot of SD lower rank material, and he is a high ranking member of another style...??
    yeah By family taught this material that Sin The fabricated so what does that say?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

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