Is Shaolin-Do for real?

**DragonflyDaoist** · 03-22-2005, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Brad

The main difference in the make up of the form itself that I saw was that there were some extra movements added in like some stationary chain punches at the end of a beng quan and extra little flowery movements with the body. I don't have the vid anymore and it was quite awhile ago, but that's what stands out most from my memory. Took a few viewings, but it turned out to be close in sequence to the linking form I've seen in Li Tian Ji's Skill of Xingyi Quan book (based on Hebei style, I think?).

That's interesting.

I was never really interested in Xing Yi until I did a little reading on it. I downloaded the James McNeil 5 Elements video to check it out a little further. Although this vid leaves much to be desired, I did develop further appreciation for the art. How does the McNeil stuff compare to the SD teachings? I've lost all my SD vids, and I can't remember enough for a comparison.

**Brad** · 03-23-2005, 12:19 AM

I've never seen any of McNiels stuff... haven't seen SD Xingyi other than that one video I used to have either, so I can't really comment. One of my sifu's main teachers was Li Tian Ji, so I can scan some drawings from the book if I ever get my scanner working :P I've done a little bit of xingyi quan, but I'm mostly a chang quan/ taiji quan guy

**Brad** · 03-23-2005, 12:24 AM

Have you checked out http://www.emptyflower.com yet?

**Golden Tiger** · 03-23-2005, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Willow Sword

So is this fishy now GT,,am i still satire to you?

Yes...........

**Judge Pen** · 03-23-2005, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Brad

The main difference in the make up of the form itself that I saw was that there were some extra movements added in like some stationary chain punches at the end of a beng quan and extra little flowery movements with the body. I don't have the vid anymore and it was quite awhile ago, but that's what stands out most from my memory. Took a few viewings, but it turned out to be close in sequence to the linking form I've seen in Li Tian Ji's Skill of Xingyi Quan book (based on Hebei style, I think?).

Some SD schools perform their forms a little more flowery than others. The "chain punches" are a Water/wood combination (the way I was taught). Brad, if I ever get back up to Columbus, I'd be happy to show you the form as it was taught to me so you can compare it to the vid of Master Reid. There are differences, but nothing earth shattering. I was taught to put a little more of my body (legs/hips and back) into the fists.

DFD, MS2 has a bit more contact with some west coast SD (excuse me, CSC) practitioners, but I don't know if his experience with SD's Hsing-I goes beyond the video in question.

**DragonflyDaoist** · 03-23-2005, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Brad

Have you checked out http://www.emptyflower.com yet?

Yes, I've been reading what he has there. It's a very well-designed site. I like what he has done with it. Good material there, too.

**Golden Tiger** · 03-23-2005, 10:17 AM

Nothing really to say..... I just wanted to be the 1000th post

**DragonflyDaoist** · 03-23-2005, 10:21 AM

GT and JP:

I've been practicing the knee and foot shoots, as per your suggestions. I'm getting better, faster than I expected. You guys rock! Thanks.

**BM2** · 03-23-2005, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Golden Tiger

Nothing really to say..... I just wanted to be the 1000th post

AAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to be the 1,000

So after reading over 1,000 posts, the elusive,diffenitive answer remains unanswered. How do you difine real? Are the strikes real? Do you improve your cardio and flexibility? Is what you learn have applications?
I give it a yes, no and may be. Not unlike any other martial art. Not all TKD, JMA, OMA and CMA schools are the same even in the same town. SD is no different and that really shouldn't be a surprise. Watch some classes and try a few. If it is not what you are looking for, fine. Many enjoy it and others have not. Not any different than other styles.
Just guessing but I would suppose that each school thinks that they are one of the better ones and the others suck.

**MonkeySlap Too** · 03-23-2005, 10:41 AM

Again, if you are doing SD Xing-yi, you aren't 'doing' Xing-yi. How would you know if it was any good?

**Judge Pen** · 03-23-2005, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by MonkeySlap Too

Again, if you are doing SD Xing-yi, you aren't 'doing' Xing-yi. How would you know if it was any good?

Well not having had the opportunity to compare it to other's Xing-yi I couldn't say whether or not it was good Xing-Yi or even real Xing-Yi. I can say that the 5 elements and 12 animal "techniques" that are taught are effective and applicable. I can tell you how the techniques flow well into one another and how I appreciate the simpliefied techniques and ease of movement and power generation that each technique presents. I can tell you that I use the 5 elements in my sparring more than any other techniques that are taught in SD. I just can't tell you if what I'm doing is real "Xing-Yi" compared to others.

Whatever they are, the techniques are real. And they are good.

**Golden Tiger** · 03-23-2005, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by MonkeySlap Too

Again, if you are doing SD Xing-yi, you aren't 'doing' Xing-yi. How would you know if it was any good?

According to who? You? That is hardly definitive proof. What tickles me about a few of you is that from a few classes or a few clips, you seem to have all the answers concerning SD. Good or bad, at least we are out there.

What I want to know is where are some examples of the supreme arts forms that you study. You seem quick to pass judgement on SD, how about showing what YOU have?

**wdl** · 03-23-2005, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by MonkeySlap Too

Again, if you are doing SD Xing-yi, you aren't 'doing' Xing-yi. How would you know if it was any good?

As Dragonfly asked, what makes it not Xing-Yi? Please tell me why SD Xing-Yi is Xing-Yi and every other style of Xing-Yi is Xing-Yi. I do not have any Xing-Yi. Please, I'd like to know the difference.

-Will

**Judge Pen** · 03-23-2005, 11:45 AM

I try not to challenge anyone's credentials. I'm certainly not challenging MonkeySlap's credentials. MonkeySlap is a well-repected member here. He is a published author and an all around-bad a$$ from what I can gather. I know he has crossed hands with SD people before. I don't know his Xing-Yi background nor do I know the extent of his experience with SD's Xing-yi.

Question: Where would I go to see real Xing-yi? Who is the best in the business that teaches 12 animals?

**Golden Tiger** · 03-23-2005, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by MasterKiller

Out where? At Taiji Legacy? At AAU Nationals? Where exactly is SD "out"?

And MonkeySlap is the last guy you should challenge on credentials.

There seems to be a lot of clips of our material floating around so that is what I mean by out there. Everyone seems to be able to slam what we do because of one or two examples so I am simpley asking to see what I am being judged against.

And if MS is going to say what is and what isn't then he is the FIRST to need to prove his credentials. But then again, you spoke up for him.....

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