View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #14281
    I totally agree with what you have said here. Plain and simple , it was a marketing strategy that got out of control. The origins of the art could be explained and defined very easily with minimal damage , I don't understand why they don't . I don't see anything wrong With sin the creating his own system, many teachers have. But to not fully disclose and lie about what it is that's wrong. I only hold sin the responsible for letting things get out of control and not stepping in right away to clear things up. Personally I think it was the affect it had on his ego that stopped him from doing do.

  2. Senior Master Gary Grooms, nationally renowned for his internal martial arts skills, will be coming to Denver Aug 17-19th to teach the fundamentals and intent of Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Hsing I. Please contact me for details. ALL martial artists are welcome. 2 full days of training with an amazing martial artist who has dedicated over 30 years to Kung Fu! Let your friends know! Testing for those that are ready is also available!

  3. #14283
    I don't know if I'd consider him nationally renowned. The only person I've heard talk of his skills is Gary Grooms himself.

  4. #14284

    Cool

    I wonder how the Soards feel about this...!?Does this violate any regional restrictions for establishing competing schools?

    Hey bodhi... Even if that's the case , plain and simple, it's a good marketing strategy. If people want to see whether he has any skill or not, they can go talk to his senior students or Master Grooms himself.

    I am sure they will be more than happy to demonstrate their skills.

    If they like what they see, they will sign up. if not they leave, either way problem solved.

    If I could have my choice to study with anyone,I would put him in the top three. I think he should be more well known inside and outside SD/ST/CSC .

    With me you have to sign the waiver and pay for a months dues.
    Last edited by tattooedmonk; 05-07-2012 at 01:16 PM.

  5. #14285
    Agreed. It would be an opportunity to see what he has.

    If I had to pick the top 3 guys I'd like to study some with, it'd be Eric Smith, Gary Mullins, Bob Green.

  6. Come by and check him out!

    And Bodhi I like your list. Although I would go for Nance over Smith myself.

  7. BTW Tattooedmonk....should I put you down? I know your interested!

  8. #14288
    Quote Originally Posted by kungfujunky View Post
    BTW Tattooedmonk....should I put you down? I know your interested!
    i am planning on it!

  9. #14289
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    no disrespect to any of the masters but there is a long list of what i call "old school master" that i would love to get a little time with ,, bill, eric, frank, gary, garry, tim, bob, mike, gordan, james, tony, john... I have had my a$$ handed to me by more then one of those on this list and always learned something from it,, even if it was to never do that again..lol
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  10. #14290
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungfujunky View Post
    Come by and check him out!

    And Bodhi I like your list. Although I would go for Nance over Smith myself.
    I took a seminar with both Grooms and Nance and I was very impressed with Nance. Master Garry and his sons were my primary teacher so I felt like I received good practical instruction. I would like to have had the opportunity to train with Master Green.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  11. #14291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    If I were still a member of CSC or shaolin do at this point, I would have serious misgivings about continuing. At the very least, I would start questioning everything I had been told up to that point, and expect to get full discolusure on anything I was subsequently taught. And I would share any information I found with everyone around me, whether it came from the masters or not.
    This is good advice in general. I think one of the main issues is that people have preconceived notions of what asian martial arts should be like. Many students want to kowtow to received knowledge (a bit like colleges in that way), and they want an intellectual brandname/heritage. There should be a patrilineal line of descent, certain customs/rituals, etc.

    I've always been a rationalist with a healthy skeptical streak, so I questioned the lineage pretty ****ed quickly. I think most people do, but it's like anything else. Most people at the schools don't really care, and they get defensive because they do not know anything more than what they've been told by senior guys. They therefore don't want to question it when pressed to do so, and they soon become set in their opinions--everyone else must be wrong.

    People who get down on teh history neglect the art because they lose confidence in it. I've been around the MA block, so to speak, and I can make the chin-na work standing or on the ground, I can throw, sweep, etc. pretty well, and I can hit hard. My teacher taught these well, but I lost confidence in the techniques a couple of years in (though never losing confidence in the teacher). I can make this art work, but there was a time a couple of years ago where I lost confidence in the art b/c of the retarded advertising campaign. I wanted to feel proud about the art, but it's hard to do that when you disagree about history, etc. We do Jiang style bagua, Cheng Man Ching's modified Tai Chi 64 (originated in Taiwan), etc. When you do the research and correctly identify things for research/background purposes, you just want to be able to talk freely about it. Nowadays, I do, come hell or highwater, raised eyebrows or rolling eyes.

    Anyways, I've been putting together a little online resource for the "alternative" history of SD---from Chung Yen Shaolin (Central Plains Wushu) on. It talks about the many different teachers who taught there, GM Ie's opium habit/rehab (his buddies got him back into training to help him kick the habit), and the basic structure of Chung Yen. It also provides background info (Jiang/Cheng Man Ching, Jie Chien [from Jing Woo], Lian Wu Zhang [Jing Woo, too]) for many of the forms. It's not derogatory or "whistleblower" in nature, and I certainly do not have all the information that exists. It's what I've gotten from 4 years of research. So far, it's pretty respectful in all ways, as I see it. It just condenses what we know is true, and leaves out the mythical stuff that's on every SD website.

    As a researcher, essayist, and college professor, I hope it'll help a discussion get started about the more practical origins of SD's curriculum. Maybe it'll help those interested in a practical history of what they're doing. I've never been a fan of dogmas.
    Last edited by Shaolin Wookie; 05-08-2012 at 06:32 AM.
    No, no, no. You're not thinking. You're just being logical---Niels Bohr

    Oh yeah!??!! Well, my dad could beat up your dad!--Lineage-Haters

    For all nonsense there is an equal and opposite nonsense---Wook

    My Youtube Channel

  12. #14292
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    But anyways, I do love the art as I practice it. I don't really agree with the way that many other people practice it, as if one interpretation of movements were the ONLY correct interpretation. There are tons of sweeps and throws in the art that others--who either cannot sweep, throw, or are terrified of going to the ground--transform into "pluck his jabbing arm out of the air and break" techniques, or else travesty as "kicks."

    The art has to work for you, and it certainly can. For the past couple of years I've told every student--practice the hell out of the techniques, ippons [slightly modified], and chin-na. The art will make sense after that. Love/hate SD, the basic curriculum is very strong if you teach it right with plenty of contact and drilling sweeps, throws, and basic holds/wrestling.
    No, no, no. You're not thinking. You're just being logical---Niels Bohr

    Oh yeah!??!! Well, my dad could beat up your dad!--Lineage-Haters

    For all nonsense there is an equal and opposite nonsense---Wook

    My Youtube Channel

  13. #14293
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    Absolutely agree!

  14. #14294
    The best combination of the senior guys to work with is: Mullins, Grooms and Nance.

    Mullins does the best job of communicating the kung-fu basics. His students on average do the best kicks, stances and forms.

    Grooms does his internal entirely different than what you see in Denver, Kentucky or Texas. When he explains why to do something a particular way he does it with straight forward physics and not a bunch of chi mumbo jumbo.

    Nance has an uncanny grasp of fighting skills. It doesn't seem to matter the range or the method, he effortlessly destroys you. If you want to understand how to fight - he is the guy.

    I would be very happy if my kung fu looked like Mullins, my Tai Chi looked like Grooms and I could fight like Nance.

  15. #14295

    Hmm

    Guess thats why they work together. Like three sides to triangle.... like the tip of an arrow pointing the way...
    Last edited by tattooedmonk; 05-09-2012 at 07:05 AM.

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