View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #14416

    Thanks sean

    So true.....basics people basics, its about the quality of what you know not the quantity. its better to know very little and use it well rather than knowing a great deal and not being able to use it at all. in jakes version I see more athleticism and some karate, but very little CMA basics. and all the phoom and pows have to go.( sound effects)
    Last edited by tattooedmonk; 08-29-2012 at 10:34 AM.

  2. #14417
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    Quote Originally Posted by UCT View Post
    If serious, then please understand that the law in every jurisdiction is different and you should consult a lawyer in your own state rather than rely on internet legal advice.
    That is the paradox I find myself in, wether to rely on your advice.
    I believe in personal liberty that provides the right of everyone to be stupid. Some, however, abuse that right.
    VOTE FOR PEDRO '08

    Ever notice how virtually everyone agrees that 95% of all traditional schools are crap, but NOBODY ever admits to being in that 5%? Don't judge... your skill may suck also...
    Quote from SevenStar

    Just call me the Shaolin Do Wet Blanket. Gene Ching

  3. #14418
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    For those who receive, or have knowledge of the letter, what was BL's take ?
    VOTE FOR PEDRO '08

    Ever notice how virtually everyone agrees that 95% of all traditional schools are crap, but NOBODY ever admits to being in that 5%? Don't judge... your skill may suck also...
    Quote from SevenStar

    Just call me the Shaolin Do Wet Blanket. Gene Ching

  4. #14419
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    Jakes only real problem, beside the ego, is the way he does his chinese martial arts , it just doesnt have that flow , its hard and chopy. He looks like a combination of SKT and DS doing his forms. you can definately see who he modeled himself after.

    make no mistake, though he is talented and has considerable skills. I would like to help him straighten some of it out if I could.

    and that goes out to all CS/ SD students. I went to three centers on a road trip recently and couldnt believe what I saw. it was sad . I feel sorry for those instructors out in the middle of no where without any real resources. other than SHS and DS. they are totally disconnected from reality.

    its amazing what you can learn from the people that actually know CMA. Just saying.
    What can be expected, though, if that's all the martial arts experience they have had? Jake started CSC when he was a teenager, so of course SKT and DS are his role models. Maybe he thinks he's too far down the rabbit hole now to accept training from another source. I was lucky that CSC was not my first serious exposure to martial arts training, and after leaving I had no problem learning from other sources. So much can be improved and corrected on the CSC material even by just reading the treatises of past and current experts of Chinese martial arts, and watching videos. How much more can be gained by finding another teacher, even just to correct the basics.
    With the internet, it is much more easy to connect with "reality", though it is also easier to get deeper into a fantasy world. But more information available isn't a bad thing, in this case.
    "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! Go back to the shadow, you cannot pass!"

  5. #14420

    Disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    the guy in this video does it better than jake does. but still, its a HORRIBLE attempt. still better than jakes IMO
    No way. He may do the moves more accurately but if this is an example of "better" because the player has a better understanding of the principles and foundations of the style, then I have to question the style. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert in CMA history and I'm sure that I'm a flawed practitioner, but what are you really talking about when you talk about the fundamentals and foundations of a style?

    Is it good stances and rooting? If so, Jake does it better than that.

    Is it balance and control? If so, Jake does it better than that.

    Is it fluidity? If so, Jake does it better than that but is admittedly inferior to the video that Sean posted.

    Is it power? If so, Jake does it better than both of the other vids.

    One of the eternal debates that goes around this fora is whether and to what extent forms training is valuable as practical MA training. I realize and accept that forms aren't the most effective and efficient way to train practical usage of techniques. Nonetheless, I practice forms because its a workout and I practice them in such a way that the practice of those forms aids me in sparring and, hopefully, self defense if necessary. So, if my practice of forms is either historically inaccurate or leaves out some je ne sais quoi, I can't say that that means its inferior. If Jake hits or kicks you, I bet you'll feel it (as long as he doesn't misuse his beaks ). If I hit or kick you, you'll feel it. I'm not sure that having the whatever it is you guys keep talking about on here contributes to that at all.

    BTW, though I'm SD now, I did get my start in longfist and jow ga under Sifu Mike Barry. Though I see the differences in the forms and understand the "karatefied" distinction you are all making, I don't know whether that makes it truly inferior or whether it just makes it inauthentic.

    But whatever...

  6. #14421
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    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    if anyone in shaolin do never questions the true source of what they are learning they will just keep learning how to push the MONKEYS BEAK in his videos.

    MONKEYS BEAK. can anyone tell me what fakkin monkey on this planet has a beak that looks like MANTIS HANDS? pls enlighten me
    Dude, I don't agree with much of what you say. But your monkey beak comments are funny as hell!

  7. #14422
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    I have to admit that I have enjoyed the discussion lately. All of the back and forth with he stole this from us and he does this well and he does nothing even close to kung fu or he is no good because he is from a hybrid/made up/not traditional/accepted CMA. Yes, I was a sd-er for over 30 years. Yes, I also studied and became proficient in Kodokan Judo and Byakuren Karate. As retired military and retired law enforcement, I can tell you the SD techniques work against opponent intent on harming you with any means available. But how can this be? SD is fake. There is no way it can work in practical application! LOL! Give me a break. Okay, so we acknowledge that SD is not 100% traditional CMA. So what? I never got into it because it was true/accpeted CMA. I got into it because it worked.

  8. #14423

    I don't disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    if anyone in shaolin do never questions the true source of what they are learning they will just keep learning how to push the MONKEYS BEAK in his videos.

    MONKEYS BEAK. can anyone tell me what fakkin monkey on this planet has a beak that looks like MANTIS HANDS? pls enlighten me
    I don't disagree with everything you say, particualarly about the "beaks." Frankly, I question the practical applicability of lots of modern mantis bridging (and other beaklike grabbing) techniques when applied to another fighter who is not also trying to bridge in the first instance. But I think different people practice martial arts for different reasons. Mostly, I practice martial arts for fitness and the self defense spillover benefits. I chose kung fu over karate generally over other martial arts because a (admittedly smaller) part of me likes the traditional forms and the weapons. That smallest part of me is dissappointed in SD because it is clear that at least some of SD is taken wholesale from other systems and that some is just made up. I chose SD where I live though, and will stay with SD here, because my Sifu was the best martial artist I saw when I visited all the schools that I was contemplating.

    What I will say about the folks I've met in the SD system (again I admit that I haven't met everyone in the system) is that, while many of them or not prettty (some are), the majority of them are very fit and are **** scrappy and game.

    The forms are what they are in the system. I'm comfortable with the fact that I practice an Indo-Chinese hybrid system that has evolved from several different sources, to include, much to your chagrine I know, kung fu.

  9. #14424
    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    What can be expected, though, if that's all the martial arts experience they have had? Jake started CSC when he was a teenager, so of course SKT and DS are his role models. Maybe he thinks he's too far down the rabbit hole now to accept training from another source. I was lucky that CSC was not my first serious exposure to martial arts training, and after leaving I had no problem learning from other sources. So much can be improved and corrected on the CSC material even by just reading the treatises of past and current experts of Chinese martial arts, and watching videos. How much more can be gained by finding another teacher, even just to correct the basics.
    With the internet, it is much more easy to connect with "reality", though it is also easier to get deeper into a fantasy world. But more information available isn't a bad thing, in this case.
    I totally agree . I see it from all angles.

  10. #14425
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    monkey beaks!!!!!

    a half decent martial artist can make anything work.....even whiping your arse has an application to it if you look close enough.

    Shaolin Do has zero kung fu roots therefore cannot be even called "SHAOLIN" in my opinion. it should be called Kungarate.

    my apologies. i thought there would be zero evidence of a monkey with a beak. i was horribly incorrect. sorry.

    this is the funniest sh!t ever!!

  11. #14426
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    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  12. #14427

    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    practicing martial arts is a great thing. the problem starts when someone tries to sell you a BMW when it was nothing more than a Ford Pinto. its really sad cause people get fooled and eventually hurt because they trusted something to teach them something authentic. if jake just called what he's doing karate or even kung fu INFLUENCED karate i wouldn't have a problem with him. at least he could admit its not really shaolin, right?

    FOR everyone who reads this thread, if you come across a kung fu school where everyone in the entire lineage was wearing karate gi's, black belts, and using karate style terminology for tradition kung fu techniques......QUESTION THE TEACHER IMMEDIATELY!

    DON'T GET FOOLED BY SNAKE OIL SALESMEN

    PS. MY DISLIKE IS TOWARDS JAKE FOR TRYING TO TELL ME HE KNEW MANY TEACHERS IN CHINA WHO PRACTICE THE ONE FORM IN QUESTION. RIGHT THERE, THAT IS A BALD FACE LIE. he could have just said...."sorry, my teacher taught it to me, my apologies" i would have just said cool....

    in saying, i don't dislike shaolin do.....
    I can't really disagree with any of this. If you say, "hey my teacher taught me this and told me this history," you're right, he would be fine. That is assuming, of course, that he did'nt really run into anyone in China who did it.

    Anyway, good to see a discussion not go down the nonproductive road.

    I am interested in having someone express to me how the form, as performed in the video that Sean posted, expresses well the foundations of your system. Not for any argumentative reason; I'm just interested.

  13. #14428

    Oh

    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    it doesn't. As the form we are talking about (the same one sean posted) it was relayed from our founder lau bun that the form was originally a rare northern shaolin five animal form. he'd been teaching it from the erly 1920's till his passing in 1967. over time, that form got "SOUTHERNIZED" via our Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.

    one thing not mentioned is that our form is also an internal one.

    for our hung sing Choy Lee Fut our forms like Sup Ji Kau Da, Ping Kuen, Sup Ji, and even our Cheung Kuen are better expressions of my style than the 5 animal form.

    However, the true ESSENCE of the 5 animal form is expressed in our system not by imitating an animal but its ESSENCE. Speed, accuracy, aggression, cunning, grace.

    but i may be misinterpreting what you mean by expressing the foundations
    I was confused; I thought this was a guy from your system doing it correctly:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j8lNk0SjwQ

  14. #14429

    Great

    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    he is. sifu bender and jake are NOT doing it correctly.
    Thats what I thought. So what is this guy doing that correctly expresses the foundations of your system?

  15. #14430
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    it seems like oldnoob is asking what DFW is doing that expresses your styles foundations well.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

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