Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

I didn't say it was, but way to answer my questions. Lineage and family are paramount, but you would out your teacher if he lied and you said that you think all styles are good because they are the tools a fighter will use, and if the fighter is not good, then the style is not good. So good fighters come from a good style regardless of lineage or origins.

[Lucas]

i think the gongfu vs karate is mostly a clutural attachment. chinese and japanese have a long history of strife. my gongfu teacher also has a black belt in karate and judo. once he said i fight like a karate man. since im not japanese or chinese i didnt take it as an insult. rather as just an observation. i do tend to put a lot of focus and intention on the power of my strikes and am also somewhat of a 'sacrificial' fighter, in that i'll leave openings and eat shots on purpose to get the target i want.

[Lucas]

i may not be invested in shaolin-do but i want to see a thread with 1k pages. i'll post stuff here just to help out!

[Lucas]

game on!!!!

[Old Noob]

So if a style without a verifiable linage creates a good fighter, than the style is good?

If a family member lied to you would you expose them as frauds?

I was going to make this point. Then the dialogue that happened between you and HSK played itself out in my head and I elected not to say it. The dabate has circles all the way around it seems.

[tattooedmonk]

why does the clothing matter, lineage or terminology matter so much to you, especially if you cant really use it in a fight or self defense any way?

[Empty_Cup]

So my question is, if shaolin do was indeed authentic kung fu, and for this conversations sake, lets say it is......

Is there a specific reason why you guys wear karate gi's and belts instead of a typical kung fu uniform. WERE YOU JUST TRYING TO BE DIFFERENT?

I know my first question would be "why the karate gi's, karate bows, and all the stuff that says karate" when i first walk into a school of "shaolin" kung fu.

What that says to me is, you guys didn't know any better. But, with the internet these days, you'd swear someone might speak up and say....

"if we're kung fu why are we wearing a karate outfit?"
i know i would.

THESE GUYS ARE SHAOLIN.....I DON'T SEE ANY GI'S OR KARATE BELTS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm_7uOMuIeE

This question has been asked and answered numerous times on this thread and I doubt anybody will want to dig up the old posts for you. All of the discussion is in the thread.

[tattooedmonk]

this is how I understand it...http://www.chingyikungfu.com/index.php?m=49 besides the story as told by GMT about chinese martial arts being outlawed in Indonesia.

[Lucas]

wsa it martial arts in general that were outlawed in indonesia or just chinese specifically?

[Old Noob]

So my question is, if shaolin do was indeed authentic kung fu, and for this conversations sake, lets say it is......

Is there a specific reason why you guys wear karate gi's and belts instead of a typical kung fu uniform. WERE YOU JUST TRYING TO BE DIFFERENT?

I know my first question would be "why the karate gi's, karate bows, and all the stuff that says karate" when i first walk into a school of "shaolin" kung fu.

What that says to me is, you guys didn't know any better. But, with the internet these days, you'd swear someone might speak up and say....

"if we're kung fu why are we wearing a karate outfit?"
i know i would.

THESE GUYS ARE SHAOLIN.....I DON'T SEE ANY GI'S OR KARATE BELTS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm_7uOMuIeE

This isn't a reasonable question coming from you; you and I discussed five pages back that what you wear doesn't define your art. If it did, one could assume that your master was practising classical Italian maffia martial arts when he performed kung fu in a black button down, black slacks, and dress loafers. When I commented on how I wouldn't judge his kung fu based on what he was wearing, you responded that: 1) I was correct; and 2) he wore steet clothes when he practiced kung fu because he practiced kung fu for use in the streets.

So, why does SD wear gis? The official answer is all over the thread and you can look back and find it. Since I don't personnally believe the official reason, I won't propogate that myth here. I think they use gis for two reasons. First, I think they used what was readily available as martial arts wear when Sin The first started teaching in Kentucky in the late 60s. Second, I just think they're more practical and durable for some of the training we do.

Some shaolin schools wear the monks robes. Some wear the sams with the frog buttons. Some wear sweat pants and school t-shirts. I don't think what they wear is a really good indicator of authenticity or origin.

Every martial art that has adopted the colored belt system is riding off judo. That doesn't make all martial arts that use colored belts judo.

[tattooedmonk]

ok, but its not outlawed in america. So why not do the traditional thing? Why keep something forced upon you? Even the chinese cut off their cue's when the qing was overthrown.

kentucky in the 60's? haha funny. maybe on the coasts but in the south? yikes

[tattooedmonk]

wsa it martial arts in general that were outlawed in indonesia or just chinese specifically?

just chinese....

[tattooedmonk]

old noob posted this... First, I think they used what was readily available as martial arts wear when Sin The first started teaching in Kentucky in the late 60s. Second, I just think they're more practical and durable for some of the training we do. this is about right in my eyes.

[Old Noob]

you and me are clear. This isn't for you. I'm fukkin with the two guys who don't seem to get it.

BUT IF YOU WANT TO JUST GIVE ME THE CONDENSED VERSION TO WHY THE GI'S? I MEAN THE SHINY OUTFITS AREN'T WHAT I CONSIDER TRADITIONAL.

TRADITIONAL GUNG FU OUTFIT IS A TSHIRT WITH THE SCHOOLS NAME ON IT. A SASH, NOT KARATE BELT. AND KUNG FU PANTS, THE ONES WITH THE ELASTIC AT THE BOTTOMS.

SO, AGAIN WHY?

I'm generally okay at understanding the written word. What exactly is it that I'm not getting? You've laid out a number of opinions. Some of them are supported by logic and evidence. Those have been acknowledged. Others are supported by prejudice and ingnorance. Yet others are seemingly mutually exclusive to other opinions you articulate. It's the latter two sets that brother Penn and I have been asking you about. And, in response to those questions, you rarely answer the question that was asked and usually engage in some derisive opinionated hyperbole.

Neither JP nor I have said that SD is authentic shaolin kung fu. We've both suggested that it is not karate; an assertion that is supported by others. We've also both stated that it's Chinese in origin and influenced by Indonesian martial arts; an assertion that is also supported by others and somewhat demonstrable. Nonetheless, you keep calling it karate and saying that people aren't getting you. That, I don't get.

[Old Noob]

WELL, I'LL ASK THIS, THEN I'LL TRY. iF I SHOWED UP TO PLAY A BASKETBALL GAME IN A BASEBALL OUTFIT WOULD ANYONE POINT, LAUGH AND STARE?

I WOULD SAY YES. REGARDLESS IF THAT GUY IN THE BASEBALL OUTFIT COULD PLAY, PEOPLE WILL STILL ASK WHY THE BASEBALL OUTFIT? OR WHAT IF THE WHOLE BASKETBALL TEAM WORE LAB COATS. WHAT IF I SHOWED UP TO MY WEDDING WHILE EVERYONE ELSE HAS SUITS AND TUX'S ON, BUT I SHOWED UP IN A CLOWN OUTFIT. YOU WOULDN'T ASK WHY? I WOULD

IN THE END, IT TELLS ME ABOUT YOUR TRAINING. WHETHER IT WAS AUTHENTIC, MADE UP, BORROWED, OR WHATEVER, IT WOULD INDICATE TO ME WHETHER YOU WERE PROPERLY TRAINED OR NOT.

MAYBE IT ALL FALL DOWN TO BEING HONORABLE. WHO KNOWS. ITS STILL NOT WHAT IT SAYS IT IS IN MY OPINION. BUT WHO AM I RIGHT?

So your master is an expert in the Sopranos martial art system? Because he looks just like Polly Wallnuts.