Is Shaolin-Do for real?

[Judge Pen]

I've never had any problems with the martial applications of our Hsing-Ie.

[brucereiter]

Yes, you were taught almost identically to the way I was taught. Interestingly, to Orion's point, I have seen versions that were slow in form and versions that were slow and then explosive and versions that were all explosive. It makes me wonder if they are just different ways to train the same technique and principals.

yes i think there are several valid ways one should train pi chuan techniques and principals.

[brucereiter]

I always wondered why our pi chuan looked so different also. I thought maybe we're doing it wrong. But then I saw this video of su dong chen doing pi chuan. The way he executes the application is pretty close to how we practice it in form.

http://youtu.be/-MF7u0RhPlg

su dong chen is one of my favorite hsing i guys.
su dong chen is a great example to follow for hsing i.

can/will you show a video clip of how you practice pi chuan?


when you say "we" who do you mean?
su dong chen and bill leonard/sin the do not do anything even similar regarding hsing i chuan.

here is what bill leonard teaches as pi churn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOM-xf_QMeQ

[bodhi warrior]

su dong chen is one of my favorite hsing i guys.
su dong chen is a great example to follow for hsing i.

can/will you show a video clip of how you practice pi chuan?


when you say "we" who do you mean?
su dong chen and bill leonard/sin the do not do anything even similar regarding hsing i chuan.

here is what bill leonard teaches as pi churn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOM-xf_QMeQ

I would but I don't have a camera. The ex got it in the divorce. But Leonard does it very similar to how I was taught.
The similarities I noticed in the su dong Chen video is the actual rising and chopping of the hands.

[One student]

You've just described what I've heard called "martial arts hell" where you depend on income from students in order to keep the school open. When this happens, if you don't set a minimum standard, you're subject to whatever satisfies the consumer. This radically changes the student/teacher dynamic.

When I was growing up there were two schools in my area and I trained at both of them. The first one was Penjat Silat Bukti Negara and the guru taught as a passion, not as a source of living. He was a great fighter, and in general the students in that school were also of a high caliber. He also put on summer camps and just generally enjoyed the teaching. He could afford to be more stingy in promotions.

The second school was a Tae Kwon Do school and was run as a business. The head instructor was also a solid guy but ended up having to spend a lot of time behind a desk vs. out on the floor. The students were generally of a high caliber as well but there were more examples of quick rank advancements and compromises. I remember specifically that there was a requirement to wait at least 6 months to go from red belt to brown belt. The next thing you knew, students were making this jump at less than 3 months. They knew the structure of the form at least.

Not that what I have to say would make any difference, but I was out of practice for several years, came back, noticed a lot of people wearing black and higher, that I first was a little critical of, appeared to me to have no business wearing that rank, judging by observing them (weight, fitness, skills, etc.). And also, people in the classes that were well unprepared for it -- the material likely way over their head.

But, when I first tested for advanced rank, I knew that although I passed, the standards were probably nothing like those that had to be met by those that passed in years past for the same rank. And those were probably lesser than those who came before them.

I came to several conclusions: 1) I am in it for what it helps me do, not for the recognition of rank, or for honor or pride; poor standards that others have do not change mine; 2) rank advancement is only a way of testing yourself, making you prepare for that level to see if you can meet that standard for that material, or better; it should not be for how others look at you but how you look at yourself; 3) the teacher's school is the teacher's school, it is not for me to tell them how to run it; 4) although overly philosophical, teaching is kind of like planting seeds: some will fall on barren soil, some will fall on more fertile soil and grow and produce. Because some of the seed might not produce as well as others is no reason not to plant them.

So you do what you do to make yourself better, and that requires putting the ego aside. You can't gain new knowledge, until you "empty the cup" of what you already have, it just gets in the way.

[One student]

So what's your opinion on that. Given that my sifu is a great teacher and that I, and many others at my school get an awesome martial eduction, and that he wouldn't be able to keep his school open if he taught only to the best students, are you okay training in a school where some of its members might not be pracitioners that would make you proud as long as you're getting what you're paying for?

Of course its true, you hear of people making black belt/sash under so and so, you know that means something, they had to be skilled to get there, that school doesn't promote without a high degree of skills. What do you think of if you hear someone got black belt at a Gracie BJJ school? And have you ever seen anyone who came up in the generation of EML, ES, BG, that are not highly skilled? You didn't get what they got back then by cruising. I don't think its a big secret though that SD is generally (although there are individual school exceptions) not currently one of those. People do regularly get promoted merely for being able to get through the material. Even 20 years ago, an advanced black degree was nothing like it was when those elder students got the same rank, much less now. It is what it is. If the recognition of others outside of SD (who know what's going on) for the rank you have is what you want, many SD schools would not be the best choice.

[One student]

Would it be too much to ask for evidence? Surely if there are actually good SD fighters there is evidence of this? yeah? Throw em up. Forms demo is cool, a semi/full contact competition would be better, but I'm not expecting that. Anyone ever enter a TKD or Kyokushin tourney or anything? Maybe a boxing match? Kick boxing? anything? But a great forms demo would help, for sure.

I've heard the stories of EML, BG, TN, others, "back in the day," going to any tournament they could find to fight, nearly every weekend as I understood it. I've seen pictures of EML's sparring trophies -- before (as I heard) he got rid of them because they were taking up space. I heard (others going back ****her can correct me) he was unbeaten for a long long time. And I understand in those days the contact rules and protective gear were not what that are now. I heard the story about SMBG breaking someone's leg in a tournament with a front sweep; and knocking someone out (in full head gear) with a round kick. I heard he had to borrow another kung fu guy's sword for a forms tournament, and broke the sword with the force of his techniques. I've seen pictures of him throwing someone off his feet and through the air with the power of his fa jing -- and I heard about it personally from the victim. These guys though just don't publicize what they accomplished. For what that's worth.

[Syn7]

Show me.

We all got stories.

I don't want to see what you guys are doing specifically. I want the best examples. Name any legit style and you can atleast find killer forms demos on youtube or whatever. I'd rather see actual resistance from someone with intent, but I realize this is asking alot considering all I'm seeing is beginner and mid levels saying "Here's what I learned, I'm not the best example tho". I'm not here to critique individual performances. I wanna see the impact of SD effectiveness on the martial world. Show and prove.

If you ask HSK to show you the effectiveness of Hung Sing, he will show you clips of full contact competition at the minimum. I'm just asking for the same thing from SD. I don't care if you know the people in the clips or not, as long as you know they are SD. All SD that is. If a guy knows 4 arts and SD is one of them then he goes and wins an mma match with his college wrestling skills, well, that is hardly showing SD effectiveness.

[tattooedmonk]

Well , this has taken a turn for the worst.

I can tell you this , at least all the SD/CSC have learned how to show honor, respect etc.for other practitioners of the martial arts , you know wu de!?

Most of you must have missed those lessons or weren't taught it.

Also , I don't do the video thing , but you are more than welcome to come and train with me and I will show you what I know.

[shen ku]

I hate to say it but i think i know a few guys on the one video, myself and sean,,, but i am not saying which one i am because it was a long trip and i was dead by that point , or my form just sucks anyways...lol , but i enjoyed the trip, hay sean got any peanut butter?

[Syn7]

Like I said, it doesn't have to be a vid of yourself. Just a vid of any SD cat who is undeniably good.

I don't see how a proven fraudulent liar is qualified to teach Wu De or any concept involving truth and respect. Lying to people to get paid is not a good base for Wu De.

So lets see... Respect, Humility, Trust, Virtue, and Honor.
Respect I just covered.
Humility? Humble people do not lie about their qualifications, lineage or skill sets.
Trust? Goes both ways. Lying is counterproductive in an exercise of trust.
Virtue? Please, next.
Honor? Don't get me started on the concept of honor. needless to say, somebody who steals, lies, cheats etc have very little to no honor.

[Judge Pen]

SHAOLIN DO VS TAE KWON DO.......BATTLE OF THE DO'S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK5RpP9v1zg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vDTeyUtLOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd6UE...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn6StGgfvhA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ6S0y8Zq3Y

NOW, this is a video of from shaolin do when they went to china. at 18:55 of this video, am i wrong in assuming the guys speaking in the background were slightly insulting the performer who far better then everyone in shaolin do....but what i heard was "ya gotta clap or something" "yeah, gotta make feel good". am i wrong in my assumption about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqu9l...=results_video

I didn't see what you are describing at 18:55, but unless you can read lips in Mandarin I think you would be wrong to assume anything, just imagine it.

[Syn7]

I didn't see what you are describing at 18:55, but unless you can read lips in Mandarin I think you would be wrong to assume anything, just imagine it.

I heard it. Talkin bout how she left the circle.
Right after the sword demo they start sayin "wish I could train 8 hours a day", it was kinda p1ssy.

So I skipped ahead to SD and managed to make it thru the first two demos. Would you say that sword and empty hand form are good examples of SD? Sin The called them masters, well, the first one at least. Can't remember about the second, but he was a BB anyways. Does anyone do a form fast? Or is the second SD form about as fast as it gets?

Shaolin Do should have went first.








24 to go

[tattooedmonk]

Working out burns more calories than typing on a keyboard, just saying.

[tattooedmonk]

If I had your issues I would be... However, I do not ...I am tailgating at the Arizona cardinals game....