Wing Chun Roots

[Red Rain]

Thus, I have heard.

There was the
White Crane of Fujian / Emei's art combination which become Siu Lien Tau system; and Wing Chun was founded.

Thus you have heard does not equal proof. Could you provide something more concrete.

That can leads to my new Model and theory of SLT ---- MDX or Multi-Dimentional Execution Model.

yellowikachu, there are theories and more theories this thread could benefit more from proof that support your theories and not just hearsay.

Give up on wing chun folks

Wing chun and Wing chun folks are not for everyone.

[yellowpikachu]

Originally posted by Red Rain

quote:
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Thus, I have heard.
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quote:
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There was the
White Crane of Fujian / Emei's art combination which become Siu Lien Tau system; and Wing Chun was founded.
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1, Thus you have heard does not equal proof. Could you provide something more concrete.




quote:
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That can leads to my new Model and theory of SLT ---- MDX or Multi-Dimentional Execution Model.
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2, yellowikachu, there are theories and more theories this thread could benefit more from proof that support your theories and not just hearsay.



.

1, Thus, i have heard, is Thus I have heard. No prove is needed.
Some believe and will search for it.
Some dont believe and dump it in the garbage..
it is a freeword. everything is ok.
If it is a fact, everything is a proof. If it is not a fact, every proof is a waste.


2, there are theories, there are observation, and there are a presentation of what the past ancestors had attained.

those who believe will believe. those who dont believe will never believe. thus, proving is just a waste of time. freeword, free will.

[reneritchie]

Wing Chun was created by them slimy, glass helmeted, green aliens from the Simpsons in an effort to divide and fragment society so we would never come up with the idea of making the 'bigger board with the bigger nail'.

Same roots as tetris, basically.

[Vajramusti]

As a red blooded resident of Cafe Americain-
I dont like aliens- specially dem green ones-they all make green giant peas- goodbye wing chun.

[Vajramusti]

As a red blooded resident of Cafe Americain-
I dont like aliens- specially dem green ones-they all make green giant peas- goodbye wing chun.

Play it Sam.

As time goes by.

[Savi]

Wing Chun is not strictly a Short Range Art.

All Wing Chun shares the centerline concept. I understand that the Centerline concept (in math terms, the "axis of symmetry") is rooted in the concept of Tin Yan Dei which has existed long before the 1850's.

Whether or not Ng Mui existed is irrelevant, there is an implication of a Shaolin Connection, predating the 1850's.

Weng Chun which has the Tin Yan Dei Concept and is a Shaolin originated system, predates the Red Boats.

Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun, a name only known to secret societies (the private sector) at the time, has Tin Yan Dei Concept and predates the Red Boats.

HFYWC and CSWC share extensive Kiu Sau methods.

HFYWC and CSWC share extensive Chan methods and teachings and traditions.

HFYWC and CSWC share the Tin Yan Dei concept which expands beyond the centerline concept.

HFYWC and CSWC share the 1/2 Point Concept.

The Red Boats stems from the Red Opera Company of 140-150 years prior to the 1850's, founded by a person by the name of Cheung Ng; a person who is in the Hung Fa Yi geneology.

Cheung Ng is recognized as the creator of the 18 plays of Cantonese Opera, made famous by the Red Opera.

Cheung Ng was a disciple of Yat Chan Daai Si, a high level monk of the northern Shaolin Temple who emmigrated to the southern Shaolin Temple.

The Fatsan Museum in China has historical evidence that Cheung Ng did exist approx 150 years before the formation of the Red Boats. The evidence points to his martial (military) and operatic involvements. This information was ferreted out by GM Ip Chun (Ip Man's eldest son) who pointed this out to the Ving Tsun Museum.

In HFY lore, Hung Gun Biu (1800's) is credited for introducing WC to the Red Boats, and the development of SNT, CK, BJ segmentation.

HFYWC and Red Boat Era Wing Chun share Tan Bong Fuk and SNT, CK, BJ.

HFYWC and Red Boat Era Wing Chun share Chi Sau methods.

HFYWC and Red Boat Era Wing Chun share the 1/2 Point Concept via the weapons.

CSWC and Red Boat Era Wing Chun share centerline theory, though c/l application/usage may differ.

CSWC and Red Boat Era Wing Chun share the 1/2 Point Concept via the weapons.

CSWC and Red Boat Era Wing Chun share the nature of Fuk, which is to subdue/cover... a trait of Shaolin.

CSWC, HFYWC and Red Boat Era Wing Chun share Fuk, the c/l concept, the 1/2 Point Concept, similar gate theories, the weapons and the Wooden Dummy.

[Vajramusti]

Rene sez-

Wing Chun was created by them slimy, glass helmeted, green aliens from the Simpsons
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Does Apu in the Simpsons know about this?

[KPM]

Savi:

What is your reference for "Red Boat Era Wing Chun"?


Keith

[KPM]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Wow I had no ideal that the history of the red boat was not true. See there, you learn stuff everyday. Could you help me out with the truth? I’ll like that a lot. Thank you.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

OK, OK! Tongue in cheek. :-) But a lot of people here will read what you wrote and think "yea, that 's the history!...why is anyone questioning it?" Its kind of funny that westerners will freely recognize their culture's own legends (King Arthur, Robin Hood, Lone Ranger, etc) as just that, and then freely accept another culture's legends as fact/history. So while you and I may repeat these legends and accept them as such, in a public forum with wide readership, they should be qualified on a thread talking about history. That's all I meant to convey.

Keith

[Ng Mui]

Big Bang, Monkey evolving, transplanted from aliens or created from God.

Everyone agrees on nothing, not even our origins.

Wing Chun is no exception. So without solid proof, What?

Faith.

Created for a woman, from a woman. Like it or not guys.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Paul H sez-

The soul unfolds itself, like a lotus of countless petals
---------------------------------------------------

Are you talking about me?
Joyotpaul= Conjugation in sanskrit of Joy+Utpal=
The victorious lotus- not the blooming lotus who has been banned from kfo.

The lotus blooms in the midst of muck and the plum flower blossoms in rough terrain and all seasons.

Wing chun is poetic enough for me even without Gibran or starry starry nights <g>

and you wonder why she calls herself that??

On WC history though, there is conflicting information on everything from names of the elders to their arts, what took place and how it progressed. I guess no-one will know for sure but if you can gather enough pieces and fit them together to make a logical sequence, it's going to be as a theory as any.

EE

[Vajramusti]

Conflicting information is par for the course in most diccussions.

Non conflicting info is often prosaic- what is the date today in a coomon calendar- variety.

Opinions? Lots of folks have one-if opinions were truths- the world would be crazier than it already is.

[sihing]

KPM, Ng Mui, Ego_Extrodinaire,

All of you have good points. It's hard to really know what the heck happened back then during the creation point of WC. The reason I believe the "Five Elders" theory is the structure of WC, its movements, concepts and principals are some much different than the rest of the Shaolin styles. The ones that are similar, Southern Mantis, BAk Mei, Hsing I, etc..may or may not have been developed after WC creation and could be a expression of the WC concepts from that particular creator. I also believe in the participation of a woman somewhere in the lineage. It makes perfect sense to me that a woman played some sort of role in the creation of the system, women pick it up so much faster than men(generally) IME, and the structure of WC allows for optimum use of natural weapons and power, etc, perfect for smaller people. Again, WC was supposed to be something of a secret so I can understand the stories of how at a certain time in WC history someone(before Yip Man) made up the legend because WC was now going to start being exposed to the public more, and the practicioners of the era had to still protect their identities. This isn't good for us in the future but it must have been needed in that era.

James

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

coincidentally, I believe in the elder theory myself. and you bring up a good point that it was throughout its conception and sometime later somewhat a secret. They were supposedly defending the secret with their lives and life objectives. It stands to reason the puzzle should be hard to put back together.

[Savi]

Originally posted by KPM
Savi:

What is your reference for "Red Boat Era Wing Chun"?


Keith

Time period. The Red Boats came about around the 1850's. Many WC lineages trace their family roots and/or oral legends to this time period.