Liu He Ba Fa--Water style boxing???

[atsai]

I clicked on the banner ad above and it took me to this place:

http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/tclh001.html

Water boxing?? It says it's "...one of the highest forms of internal martial arts..." From the description it sounds more like yoga. Anyone know anything about this supposed "water style boxing"?

<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art Tsai " onClick="parent.location='http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

[Water Dragon]

www.liuhopafa.com

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

[KC Elbows]

water boxing is a legitimate style. Wai Lun Choi in Chicage is the only person I've known who taught it, but the man is a ferocious fighter, and I have no doubts as to the styles usefulness.

[EARTH DRAGON]

water boxing is one of the jewels of china, it is a beautiful style and when used correctly can be very powerful.
They have a form that called up from the ground which is very graceful when perfromed slow but very powerful when executed rapidly like that of tai chi. The practioner pulls the chi from the ground and encircles it and depenses it at will against their opponents.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[atsai]

Thanks. Now I see the chinese name, I remember hearing about the style. How does it became known as the "water boxing" here though...?

<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art Tsai " onClick="parent.location='http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

[fiercest tiger]

did this style only have one form?

i know a teacher here that teaches this style.

come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com

[swmngdragn]

>water boxing is one of the jewels of china, it is a beautiful style and when used correctly can be very powerful.<

True enough.

>They have a form that called up from the ground which is very graceful when perfromed slow but very powerful when executed rapidly like that of tai chi. The practioner pulls the chi from the ground and encircles it and depenses it at will against their opponents.<

>EARTH DRAGON

I have no idea where you're going here. You need to realize that the forms do nothing, but teach the techniques, and essential, proper, mechanics. It's up to the individual to train diligently. There's nothing mystical, or magical about LHPF. It's just a matter of hard work, and *correct* practice. Any other benefits that come of the training are just that.... other benefits. Sheesh. :rolleyes: There's no pulling of the chi from the ground, or air, or water, etc... It's all a matter of proper physics, biology, kineseology, proper breathing, and training.
___________________________________
>Thanks. Now I see the chinese name, I remember hearing about the style. How does it became known as the "water boxing" here though...?<

>Art Tsai

The name Water Boxing was the original name of the fighting form. In that the style was like a wave, never relenting, always adapting/changing. It was changed to better reflect the philosophies that are inherent in LHPF. This is from the *martial* art.

What you see from the Liang's is the performance/dance/wushu variety known as "water boxing" in modern gung fu circles. Utterly worthless as a martial art, or, for that matter, a internal art.
__________________________________
>did this style only have one form?

i know a teacher here that teaches this style.<

>fiercest tiger
_________________________________
The style is complete, and there are five kuens. Originally there was only the philosophy, and chi gung of Chen Hsi I. The fighting sets were derived from those.

I know you do. :) We've, very briefly, discussed this before.

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

[This message was edited by Drake on 10-18-01 at 10:42 PM.]

[EARTH DRAGON]

I have no idea where you're going here. You need to realize that the forms do nothing, but teach the techniques, and essential, proper, mechanics. It's up to the individual to train diligently. There's nothing mystical, or magical about LHPF. It's just a matter of hard work, and *correct* practice. Any other benefits that come of the training are just that.... other benefits. Sheesh. There's no pulling of the chi from the ground, or air, or water, etc... It's all a matter of proper physics, biology, kineseology, proper breathing, and training.

I did not mean to imply that it has magical powers, but with any internal style the use of cultivating chi and borrowing universal chi is apparent is it not?
when performing a set of tai chi chuan are you not playing with not only your chi but that of the energy that surronds you?

This is all I meant when I said The practioner pulls the chi from the ground and encircles it and depenses it at will against their opponents.
But is that not the goal of any internal form? for it is no longer the muscle strength that is used to defend but that of chi! which obviously comes from as you said from proper physics, biology, kineseology, proper breathing, and training. which teaches you how to use internal force as opposed to physical strength.

http://www.kungfuUSA.net

[NorthernMantis]

Wai Lun Huang also teaches it in Miami.

"Always be ready"

"right, that's it!you've insulted me, and you've insulted the shaolin temple!"-Fish of Furry

[MonkeySlap Too]

The term 'water boxing' refers to common metaphors used in different Xing-Yi schools. It often refers to how the Xing-Yi practitioner attacks - not like a cool lake, but a rapids moving at flood season - unrelenting, pounding, filling every opening given to it.

This is a likely souce of the 'nickname' for the style. This is just a thought I had.

Although the official style name includes 'Xing-Yi' in the title, I am told that it contains elements of BaGua and Taiji. But other than having friends in the style, I have little direct experience - other than I can tell you first hand that you DO NOT want to be thrown by Wai Lun Choi. Whee!

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Daniel Madar]

Albert Liu is currently teaching Liu He Ba Fa in SF. I don't know his lineage, but he's a closet kind of guy. I don't think he's tied in to the main stream. I know he studied Hao Style Taiji and Taiji Bagua as well.

I'll try to ask him about it. I can't even remember his full chinese name, but it's in the Sun Lu Tang book that he translated for Tim Cartmell.

Merciless is Mercy.

[swmngdragn]

E.D.

>I did not mean to imply that it has magical powers, but with any internal style the use of cultivating chi and borrowing universal chi is apparent is it not?
when performing a set of tai chi chuan are you not playing with not only your chi but that of the energy that surronds you?<

I'll have to disagree with you, in part, here, E.D. Internal means internal. whatever you want to call the life force/chi/breath etc is an intrinsic part of averyone, and every thing. You can't "borrow" from another source. What you have is what you have, and what you're doing is "exercising" what you have. Developing it.

>This is all I meant when I said The practioner pulls the chi from the ground and encircles it and depenses it at will against their opponents.<

:rolleyes: See above.

>But is that not the goal of any internal form? for it is no longer the muscle strength that is used to defend but that of chi! which obviously comes from as you said from proper physics, biology, kineseology, proper breathing, and training. which teaches you how to use internal force as opposed to physical strength.<

You're getting into esoterics. It *may* just be a matter of semantics, here. See above, again.

Slap2monkeys..... ;)

Hsing-I *isn't* part of the name. Hsin Yi is. Mind/Intent, as opposed to Heart/Will.

Best regards,

R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Oops, my bad.

But isn't Hsin Yi an alternate name for one of the historical branches of Xing Yi? As in - the same 'family' or grouping?

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[swmngdragn]

>Oops, my bad.<

(insert Raymond Burr type voice)
Yeeeeessss..... You *aaaarrrrrre*. Now bend over. :p

>But isn't Hsin Yi an alternate name for one of the historical branches of Xing Yi? As in - the same 'family' or grouping?<

In the larger sense? Yes, but each has it's own "flavour", and "sensebilities" that are unique to said style(s).

That being said, Hua Shan Hsin Yi Liu Ho Pa Fa Chuan's use of Hsin Yi is a much more appropriate description as opposed to Hsing-I. Again, though, it may just be a matter of semantics. I dunno. ;)

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Nahh, there are some distinctions between the two - and I used to know this, but I guess I've been getting choked too much lately, I can't for the friggin life of me remember...

Grrr.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.