Zhang Zhuan and martial arts...

[Samurai Jack]

I've practiced Qi Gong, specifically standing Qi Gong (Zhang Zhuan), off and on for several years. I'm curious to know if any of you internal stylists could provide any insights into what precise benifit this practice has to a martial art. I've heard so many claims, but have yet to see any benifit beyond the vague "increase in the flow of Qi" explanation.

Does standing have any measurable application to martial arts training? If you had two Xing-yi stylists for example who spent an equal amount of time training form, sparring, etc., would the one who practiced Zhang Zhuan (ala San Ti or Yi Chuan) be more powerful?

[Buddy]

Does standing have any measurable application to martial arts training?

Yes. Standing develops a tremendous amount of static power.

"If you had two Xing-yi stylists for example who spent an equal amount of time training form, sparring, etc., would the one who practiced Zhang Zhuan (ala San Ti or Yi Chuan) be more powerful?"


Powerful? Zhan Zhuang. Fighting? The other guy maybe. Why not do both?

[Samurai Jack]

That's what I'm asking. If you have two Internal stylists who spend an equal amount of time working martial technique, but only one of them spends time practicing Qi Gong, would the Qi Gong guy be a better fighter?

If not, then the reason I wouldn't want to do both would be because the Qi Gong would be a waste of time and effort for my purposes.

In other words, Qi Gong is very difficult, IMO more difficult than practicing a martial art. So my question is from a martial standpoint does Standing Qi Gong provide any benefit?

And what do you mean by "static power"? Fighting is very dynamic, so I'll need to be able to use any power I develop with Zhan Zhuang in movement.

[Zenshiite]

Standing meditation also improves your rooting.

Without a firm root your martial techniques are nothing.

Xing yi, Ba gua, Tai chi are nothing without a firm root. Hence why standing meditation are important.

Peace,
Dawud

[Buddy]

"And what do you mean by "static power"? Fighting is very dynamic, so I'll need to be able to use any power I develop with Zhan Zhuang in movement."

I mean it deveops a lot of power. A lot. But unless you train how to use that power it's of little use. Similarly if you train martial technique but lack power your technique is useless. Unless of course you just use strength, in which case you might as well just study and external style. I could readily show you what this power feels like. Unless you learn to develop neijin, you're not doing IMA anyway.

[Ray Pina]

Helps you become more aware of the connections, also, with time, those uncomfortable postures should become comfortable.

Also, take the popular posture that looks like you're holding a tree. You slowly raise the arms with the breath, but also the mind. You try to use as little muscle as possible, meaning, limit it to the least common denominator. Try to have everybody who is not necessary relax.

Later you do this with a slightly resisting partner. Isolate the guy who does the job.

Later on, this saves oxygen/energy. This is something I was working on about 4 months ago but have been side tracked a little working some other areas.

[bamboo_ leaf]

(I've practiced Qi Gong, specifically standing Qi Gong (Zhang Zhuan), off and on for several years.)

If after 7 years of practice you still have to ask others what it is good for, it seems like you probably wasted your time. Maybe your practice is incorrect ? its usage should be self evident.

[Buddy]

Unfortunatley, the leaf is right. Seven years in Zhan Zhuang should make the power pretty obvious. Also EF ,while I like that stance for health, I feel that some form of Santi, whether Xingyi's or Yiquan's modified, better for developing power in all directions.

[omarthefish]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
I've practiced Qi Gong, specifically standing Qi Gong (Zhang Zhuan), off and on for several years.

Although they sound a lot alike I just wanted to point out that "several" =/= "seven".

[Buddy]

Doesn't matter.

[Samurai Jack]

Sure it does. "Off and on for several years", i.e. once in awhile for three years or less is a far cry from "seven years of (consistent) practice". I agree that if I practiced daily for seven years I should know whether or not Zhang Zhuan would improve my power, connection, structure, and so on.

The reason I came to the internal arts forum asking for Qi Gong advice is that when it comes to Qi Gong, I AM A BEGINNER. LOL at BL and Buddy putting me down for not being privy to their apparently vast knowledge. Too bad they won't share it with a mere mortal.

[Buddy]

"Sure it does. "Off and on for several years", i.e. once in awhile for three years or less is a far cry from "seven years of (consistent) practice"."

My point was it doesn't matter if it was several or seven. If you'd practiced consistantly for either and didn't get results, several or seven would mean you've been missing something. If you've only been doing it half assed for either no wonder you don't understand it.

"I agree that if I practiced daily for seven years I should know whether or not Zhang Zhuan would improve my power, connection, structure, and so on."


OK fine you agree. Then why didn't you take my answer at face value?

"The reason I came to the internal arts forum asking for Qi Gong advice is that when it comes to Qi Gong, I AM A BEGINNER."

A fact you neglected to mention.

"LOL at BL and Buddy putting me down for not being privy to their apparently vast knowledge."

Son, no one put you down. You received some very valuable comments. You wanted an either/or answer and there isn't one. So do what you want. If you don't want to hear the answer don't ask the question. If you want to hear only the answer you want, join a place with a black belt club.

"Too bad they won't share it with a mere mortal."

I guess you're too busy LOLing to hear any sharing.


__________________
Aikido: Putting the "harm" back in "harmony".

LOL at there being any harm in aikido.

[Samurai Jack]

Buddy, I appreciate the fact that you were willing to give an opinion to my question. I suppose I felt a little persnickity being misquoted and misunderstood. Re-reading you're initial comments, I see that you were offering helpful advice. Sorry to have offended.

[Brad]

Some benifits I've noticed when I practiced regularly are better mental focus(in both academic and athletics), better able to control my breathing, increased leg strength, more fluid movement, and better relaxed joints.

[bamboo_ leaf]

http://www.yiquan.org.uk/art-zz.html

(Tips for Zhan Zhuang practice
Establish a regular routine
The best way to achieve that is to start with very little but every day. What is 'very little'? Say 10 seconds - and I do not mean it as a joke! If you start with 10 seconds, you'll eventually be able to go to hours with no problem (if you wish). )


(Pain is not necessary
Pain is distracting. Remember, you are training your mind - if the pain in your legs or arms distracts you, you can't concentrate, so stop practising or change to another posture. If you have pain in any of your joints, stop practising - you should never feel pain in your joints. Muscle pain could be OK, but best to check with someone who would know (for example your teacher). )



Sorry if you read my post that way it was not my intent. But for that amount of time it seems like you should have some idea of what the practices is for. The site listed provides some insights to the practice of standing.