any weightlifters here?

[Kevin Bell]

Just checked the previous thread as referred to by Yong Chun and it seems this is just a rerun.

Andrew: Respect,enough said!

[Kevin Bell]

Kung Fu Magazine Forums > Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum > Wing Chun > How Do You Train?


Dont know if i pasted this over correctley but this is even more of a rerun with more or less the same points of view as now..

Andrew:Stirling work!

amjg2000:Go Check.

[Kevin Bell]

Amjg2000:Cool. I just lift to maintain size (small dude about 165lbs now, useta be 180lbs when i started wing chun). But i am still building strengh. But for my lil 5 foot 8 ass, its plenty of weight.

I am a hardgainer (classic ectomorph) so I can't really lift too much. I found that 2 sets of each exercise, one low rep set and one high rep set, works best for me.



Kevin:You're still building strength?Not at an optimal rate youre not.Thats STRENGTH we'rer talking about here not size.


Amjg: Let's see, i lift weights to maintain a strong muscular system. To have "padding" to take a hit. I mean, you do get hit right? Ever been hit by a 250+ pound Samoan? Um, it hurts. I lift weights to improve my physical strenght. Doesn't mean that i purely rely on it. But its nice to know its there to use when you need to.


Kevin:First off i accept due to the close quarter nature of Wing Chun i'm going to get hit.I accept it regardless of assailents size.Do i get hit??I boxed for eight years i've been hit dont worry about that.

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I've heard a lot of "strength training makes you stiff" or "you dont want to be built like Arnie" people also confuse body building with strength training.
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Amjg:Strenght training without flexibility training makes you stiff Every see the he-man looking fools in the gym, who can't turn their neck more then 45degrees? YOu can be built like Arnold and still be flexible with quickness, it all in how well rounded you train. If you lift, stretch, work on your reflexes, you'll be game. I don't lift to look good, i lift to be strong. If i have a six pack and can get *****es wit it, then hey i consider it a perk..


Kevin:I was paraphrasing common misconceptions people have about strength training those are not my thoughts.I advise you to read the post more carefully.


amjg:Also i don't do snatches and clean and jerks for explosive power. I simply don't believe in explosive weight lifting, causes more injuries then normal. (your friend's scenario that he cited to u)


Kevin:My friend allude to NFL guys who utilise HIT and its relation to injuries etc again read the post more carefully.Also," weight lifting (explosive) causes more injuries than normal"????.Please provide me with evidence that prooves your claim.I was involved in an accident when in my early twenties damaging vertabrae and blowing a disc in my back when i was run over by a car whilst out cycling my bicycle.Do i feel any adverse affects due to strength training knowing i have back problems?? NO!


If im doing anything wrong as i said please tell me and substantiate your explanation with references from scientific research.In my opinion if your happy doing what your doing then fine you do it bro.My thinking was optimising your approach for Wing Chun you know its always worth your time checking out the recommended reading references i supplied.

This debate has now run its course and been done to death on the link to the post i put up.

Please read the posts more carefully in future before misquoting yourself.I respect you AMJG as a human being and im sure youre a nice guy and entitled to your views.i dont want you to agree with what i say just because i say so,look to research look past what i say mate!

[AndrewS]

Kevin- thanks. We 've gotta hook up some time. I've been planning to roll through the UK as some point. . .

On the explosive thing (as I just did 2 hrs of snatch drops and split jerks)-

train explosively like an idiot and you'll get hurt. Train explosively right, and you'll be fine.

By all reports the lowest rate of injury at the US olympic training center in the lifters- the most explosive athletes. Another data point- degenerative joint disease increases in prevalence from ankle to hip. One oft-theorized reason for this is that the ankle sees more ballistic forces than the hip, and that said forces are a stimulus for connective tissue production.

Later,

Andrew

[Kevin Bell]

Hey Andrew,

If you swing via the UK let me know buddy and i'll do my best to hook up.

Also if you ever come across any interesting reads/articles etc feel free to let me know im always receptive to that kind of thing

Best wishes for now Buddy.



Amjg: Let's see, i lift weights to maintain a strong muscular system. To have "padding" to take a hit. I mean, you do get hit right? Ever been hit by a 250+ pound Samoan? Um, it hurts. I lift weights to improve my physical strenght. Doesn't mean that i purely rely on it. But its nice to know its there to use when you need to.


Kevin:Not quite but last year at the local military port in my village i ended up partaking in a charity Rugby match.We have a load of guys staioned here on exchange from FIGI.To say they were massive would be an understatement!I got bulldozered into the dirt time and again.I woke up the next morning and man did i ever need an ice bath!!!!!Those boys know how to hit!!!!!

[Neo]

Currently do some of the Gracie routines in the Superfit book of his: plyometrics, isolaterals and power movements. pain in the a*** though as I don't have loads of weights in my garage, and as the wife goes to the gym, I get to work out in the garage! Although they get slated for being less productive than free weights, I'm getting a multi station off my brother in a week or so, along with a decent rower and bike all for £200. although free weights rule, time is quite restrictive and the multi gym will have more weight on it which has also been a limiting factor.

The other problem I find is that I get bored easily, which doesn't help when you have to keep changing collars on a single bar bell while doing supersets. And with time being such a limit, will hope that the multi gym will provide some time savings. Justy wish I could be the one going to the gym instead of the wife, went on a free weekend and was in heaven....indoor running and sprint tracks, free weight area with preloaded barbells and dumbells, smith machine for explosive training. Sigh..

Anyway, I do feel that the weights improves my training, and its balls about training the biceps will restrict punching. That's just people not knowing how to punch properly. You need the correct balance in your muscle relationships, with correct compund exercises for both pulling and pushing.

[Kevin Bell]

Hello Alisdair.

You have my sympathies with the gym situation!

Man,that makes me laugh when i hear the "dont train the bicep" quotes. A strong bicep helps prevent hyperextension of the elbow and blowing it out the other side.These are one of the very few isolation execises i do.Though it has to be said i probably train enough with weighted chins,seated rows etc.

Best wishes
Kev

[Neo]

Especially when you see such quotes in books by supposedly learned masters, for example Leung Ting's revised edition of Dynamic Wing Tsun, where he quotes that you should not train the biceps. What message does that spread to so many people? And don't get me on the idiotic sweat suit training in the book...

and yes, me too, I still stick in a bicep curl or hammer curl in the training, even with the other compounds you mentioned.

[Kevin Bell]

Hey Alisdair,

I come up with a couple of solutions to you're predicament.

Idea 1: Tell your wife you finish work an hour and a half before you actually do.Dive in the gym on the way home.

Idea 2:Get yourself a good boss at work.When i went for my interview to speak about terms/conditons etc i insisted on a Jong on the wall,swiss ball and loads of free weights to decorate the place.

Idea 3: In you're garage install a bench,a pull up bar (increase the difficulty by sticking a weight between youre knees),and get a good welder to build you a squat rack,and lastly clear a space to do some modified OL's and DL's..

[Neo]

Cheers Kev

Idea 1: I don't have day job, unless you count looking after three kids as a day job!

Idea 2: Got what you mentioned anyway, along with a few other bits, but the free weights answer is being resolved next year! As for your boss, amazing...

Idea 3: have a crappy bench but it makes do, squat bar is being sorted (see below), have two chin up bars, one in garage gym and one in house (must do more!)

Wife astounded me on Sunday by saying that she is considering dropping the gym membership when it expires, so that we can get more equipment at home, although I think she wants a treadmill ("what's wrong with running around the block woman?"). My requests will be decent bench with squat rack, more free weights and medicine balls, and jigsaw matting for grappling training at home, instead of just at one of the locations I teach at currently.

[Toby]

Neo, here's what I've got. Highly recommended. I didn't get the optional lat attachment, and unfortunately it didn't come with the model.

[Neo]

Phew, gonna cost a packet that one Toby! And you still have to buy the plates as well. Looks good though, wonder if they distribute in the UK, guess I'll be getting something similar albeit alot cheaper!

[Kevin Bell]

If your stuck for equipment Pavel Tsatsouline has some good routines with Just Kettlebells and body weight drills such as one handed press ups and one legged squats etc (Not that i have achieved this of course-yet)

Reference reading material:The Naked Warrior

[Toby]

Neo, I got it from a local fitness shop here in Oz, so I'm pretty sure it'll be in the U.K. I got a bunch of stuff incl. a bench from the same company, a bar, a weights tree and 400lb of weights. I do bench, squat, deadlift and weighted pullups on it. I used to attend a gym and this only cost about 3-4 years of gym membership. My gym was the university gym and the cheapest in town. Compared to a regular priced gym it would be less than 2 yrs membership. I've had it for almost 18mths, so not long and I'll be saving money. At the time I rang around and priced up comparable packages from several stores. Most cost similar for their budget range, which is what that rack is.